Say hello to my little MG3

Submitted by Eric Daniel

Ok, this entry might be a little outside the realm of Kit Up, as I most certainly did not buy this, but it definitely was not government-issue (at least not my government) and it is a brilliant piece of kit, and as Meat Loaf once said, “two out of three ain’t bad.”

Anyway, one of the byproducts of conducting security operations in Iraq is you end up with a lot of confiscated weapons, and over the years, quite a respectable collection had been assembled by the various units rotating through the IA mission on our FOB. Naturally we had such staples as the AK-47, AKM, RPK, RPD, and PKM, but we also had some pretty cool specimens as well, like Dragunov SVD sniper rifles, a working DShK, RPGs, even such oldies but goodies as a couple of Mosin-Nagant M1891bolt action rifles and a PPSh-41 sub-machine gun (non-functional unfortunately, otherwise this thing would have been a blast.)

The piece d’resistance, though was a brand-new, never been fired, fully functional German MG3.

We came about this little gem after detaining a collection of Iraqi oil and pipeline security folk who were conducting illegal shakedown checkpoints out in the hinterlands. In the process of cataloguing their equipment the scribing NCO described the MG3 as some sort of Star Wars blaster rifle, and so it’s true nature went undiscovered until I happened to see it propped up against the wall in the supply room, whereupon I discerned the true nature of this fine piece of warmongery.

The machinegun itself was in a sorry state. It was bone dry (a blessing as it would turn out), packed with dust, and had never been fired. Since it had never been lubricated (that I could tell), cleaning it up was simply a matter of field stripping it, blowing the majority of the dust out and then giving it a good bath and scrub in solvent. Once clean, dry, lubricated, and reassembled, my MG3 and me went out to the range to convert some linked 7.62 NATO into heat and noise. For those of you who have never had the opportunity to fire an MG3, it is quite possibly the finest, single barreled medium machinegun ever built. Based on the German MG42 of WWII fame, the MG3 is essentially the MG3 rechambered from 7.92mm Mauser to 7.62mm NATO. Its ROF is 1,200 rounds per minute and it is an absolute dream to shoot.

Had we simply found the weapon in a raid I would have ditched my M16 and hauled that sucker with me everywhere, but alas and alack, I had to give it back when we eventually released the Iraqis we had detained. I shudder to think now what state “my” MG3 is in, but for the week or so we were together, and the thousands of rounds we fired together, I was in absolute heaven.

Check out the MG3 here

Comments

[Lee Gibson]

If I'm not mistaken, the MG3 is a Star Wars blaster. I believe the long weapon that some Stormtroopers carry (as opposed to the blaster carbine that seems to always find its way into the Rebels' hands) is a gussied-up MG3.

Anyhow, count me as one civilian who appreciates your blog and your service. Thank you.

[cavhero]

The West German MG3 (the grandson of the MG42) is well made, thats why it has survived so long in the hands of scruffy Iraqi's. It was in all probability "captured" via Kurdish raids/combat against Turkish Forces which have used the MG3 since its inception. Fun to shoot for sure, but get s all kinds of hot (quickly) and eats ammo at an alarming rate. As in, a rate that a dismounted squad could never feed. Germans found that out in WW2, thats why the Bundeswehr installed the so-called "NATO Bremse" or "NATO Brake", which "slowed" the cyclic rate down from crazy WW2 1,850RPM, down to the current rate. Question remains...why did you give it back to them?

[Eric Daniel]

Unfortunately, there was never any question of returning the machinegun to the Iraqis. Since the goons we detained were Iraqi soldiers, their kit was the property of the Iraqi government. The only reason I had the MG as long as I did was because no one from the ministry came to pick up their folk (since they weren’t civilians we couldn’t turn them over to the IP (to be let go) and since they hadn’t done anything to us, we couldn’t hold on to them, so we detained them only long enough for a responsible party from their ministry to come collect them (and let them go.)

But boy I sure did want to hold on to that MG….

[curt layman]

Is that MG3 the one the Germans could twist the hot barrel from and insert a cold one? I'm an MP43 fan myself. What IS it about German weapons? Anybody Know anything about the WW1 Paris gun with a 75 mile range?

CL

[Eric Daniel]

The barrel locking lever for the MG3 is on the right hand side of the weapon (it’s visible in the photograph as the vertical bar forward of the link ejection port.) Pushing the lever forward unlocks the barrel and pushed the back end of the barrel out to the right. If you slap the lever hard enough you can all but shoot the barrel out of the receiver, making for a very rapid barrel change indeed.

[fartsinsleep]

Wasn't our M60 based on the german 43?
But my favorite for anything but patrol is still the M14A1E2. It seemed to enjoy playing in the dirt!

[Tony]

Did I hear him say "give it back"? That's just a little f'ing disconcerting, wouldn't you say??

Tony S.
OIF VET '02-'03

[Steve]

Unless it's significantly different from the M-60 (which was based on it), it is a well-made POS.

(Or did the M-60 designers deviate, and build in all the flaws, from scratch?)

;-)

[Eric Daniel]

Tony,

Giving that wonderful MG back wasn't the silliest thing we ever did. Releasing an IP (Iraqi Policeman) who tested positive for explosives residue and was caught with 250,000 USD in several currencies because the 72-hour detention window (post Abu Grab) passed was about the dumbest thing we ever did.

Unfortunatly, our chain of command was all about rules...

[Eric Daniel]

Having fired both the M60 and the MG3, I think the only thing the two designs share is the word "machine gun" in their name (though in truth, the actual name for the MG3 is Maschinengewehr.)

So I guess you could say they have nothing in common, as the M60 well and truly, is a POS.

[wclardy]

FYI, the Star Wars heavy blaster was built around the MG34, not the MG42. The MG34 was a finely machined weapon, and is easily distinguished from the MG42 by its round barrel shroud (versus the flat-sided barrel shroud of the MG42).

Also, in answer to another question, yes indeed, the designers of the M60 copied the feed mechanism of the MG42 and then "simplified" out the parts of the design which made it so reliable and slapped it on top of a reciever design similarly copied from the FG42 (which was a battle rifle manufactured for the German paratroops).

[thomas]

That sweet wish i could have be there to see it in person,and fired that.

[chris]

Anyone know how close this resembles the M240G? That is what I used for 5 years in the Marines.

[CathDAT]

I've actually fired all 3 (MG3, M60, and M240). From what I remember reading, the ammo feed mechanisms inside the feed covers of the M60 and MG3 were identical. Too bad it was such a POS, tho Viet Nam vets would disagree I'm sure. I remember the M240 (not B or G versions) were used as coaxial MGs on US tanks as far back as 1982. I loved shooting it. It's really surprised me that it took 20+ years for us to put a butt stock and bipod on them... The MG3 was short-recoil operated whereas the M240 is gas operated. I'm a firm believer that the M240 is the best MG ever adopted by the US Army...besides the M2 .50 cal that is....

[Anthony Moody]

Ida figured out a way to send that gem back to the states. I look up at the German bayonet and photo album my Grandpa brought back with him with a bit of pride. That piece belongs in the Infantry museum at Benning.
"Rangers lead the way" Regardless, that's a proud moment you can retell to willing and eager ears for the rest of your life. From a second generation 11B, keep your head down and your eyes up buddy.

[RAMPAGE]

YOUR KIDDING ,YOU GAVE IT BACK,HELL I GOT 2,000 RDS A MINUTE OUT OF ONE IN THE BALKLINS.NEVER LET SOMETHING LIKE THAT LOOSE.

[USFISTER]

Wow, I'm amazed at what people have time to do in Iraq... pet projects AND a blog? I hardly ever went out and even I didn't have time for that.

[gian barbanti]

My father after the end of II ww used the MG 34 and MG 44 for Military Police Duty.MG 44 that he saved for more or less ten years has a firing capacity of up 5.000 rounds per minute.This MG was made for the war on to the Russian Front .Newer get jammed.It was fantastic

[Glenn Allen]

I happen to know where there is a working MG3--------I have even fired it------------what a joy to fire-------wish the M-60 was that sweet to fire---I have 18+ years with the 60 2----lol

[Kim Guldberg]

The MG3 is the standard squad support weapon in the danish army. It is a fine machine gun and I have used it extencively both as a mounted machinegun and in the infantry configuration.

[MITCHELL MATEIKO]

THE M-16 EJECTION PORT COVER WAS ALSO DERIVED FROM THE.MG-42.THE GERMAN DESIGNATION IS MG-1, THE ITALIAN IS MG-42/59.

[Ray Brown]

The Paris guns of WW I were "Kaiser Wilhelm Geschutz, built by the Krupp works which fired a 330 pound shell from a 92 foot long barrel. The were 210mm guns which fired a shell at 5000 feet per second reaching an altitude of 24 miles and hitting Paris 70 miles away. The guns were only good for 20 shots before needing to be re-bored and the rounds were actually of successively larger diameters so they would continue to make contact with the riflings and the barrels degraded.

[Rolf A]

I serwed my duty with the mg3 and ag3 both 7.62 in the Norwegian navy. I it was unbeliwable fun shooting with the mg-3. A little bit bad presision using 2-fot. But with 3-fot,,,amasing.
Speed, presision. A fifty rounds belt blow away so fast that its difficult to see ;-)

[Jason Hastings]

I was in OIF 1. I built a museum of weapons from what my soldiers found. We had everything from a variety of bolt-action WWI rifles (Mausers, Lee-Enfields), to WWII autos and semi-autos, and every handgun you could think of. My favorites were a British Webley Mark VI (the .455 Mankiller) and a Soviet Stechkin (20-rd, .380 cal, fully auto pistol.)

[carl]

I just came back from iraq and i had a MG3 mounted on my HUMVEE. i had a mount manufactured by the koreans in irbil and it became my primary weapon during ops in baghdad. i really miss her. no one out side of our team said anything about it but i dont think it was Army approved but who cares when your ass is in the grass.

[Stephen H. Franke]

Greetings.

As others have posted, the MG-3 MG is an excellent and very rugged weapon. In addition to the Turkish licensed copies of the MG-3, the Iranian armaments industry -- during the shah's reign and since his overthrow -- has produced thousands of copies for national military forces and export sales. In Sudan, I often saw many MG-3s used by Sudanese Army units during Bright Star exercises and some MTTs there during the early-to-mid-1980s. While those MG-3s appeared externally much the worse for wear, they fired steadily. (The rising-sun-and-armed lion Imperial Iran logo and Persian-language factory proof-marks stamped on their receivers were obvious giveaways of their origin.)

During the Iraq-Iran War of 1980-1988 (aka Gulf War I), Iraqi Army units captured quantities of MG-3s from Iranian units. The MG-3's NATO caliber enabled the Iraqis to use them against their original owners with deadly effect, especially for breaking up massive human wave ground assaults by Iranians during the campaign for the Fao Peninsula.

Iraqi military sources I debriefed in 1991 after ODS related that the MG-3 -- whenever available -- became their preferred infantry weapon for frontline defense, especially because the Iraqis' standard-issue Russian-design LMG and MMG (RPK, PKS, PKM, et al) would jam or malfunction due to overheating by prolonged firing against the massed targets. Once Iraqi ordnance workshops built a stock of replacement barrels (their short supply during early phases of the war caused some anxiety), the MG-3 was effectively adopted by forward-deployed Iraqi Army units.

FWIW, some of the public security/paramilitary forces in Saudi Arabia (SA) use pedestal-mounted MG-3s in their "gun trucks" parked on guard duty around vital installations. The conventional SA Land Forces and the National Guard (SANG) instead use versions of the 7.62mm NATO GPMG as their standard MG.

Regards,

Stephen H. Franke
Chief Trainer (Intelligence and C3I)
SANG Modernization Program
Riyadh

[SGM Patrick Cassell (ret.)]

The spanish also made (makes?) a smaller version of the MG-3 (MG34/42) in the 5.56mm caliber. I saw one at the 1983 Soldiers of Fortune Convention in NC. Unfortunately it didn't operate very well and stopped firing several times. Finally it stopped all-to-gether and they couldn't resume firing. Too bad, sure looked nice in its olive green finish.

[TexComanche]

Sounds like a great weapon. The only thing that would exasperate me is the changing of the barrel every 150 rounds. Doesn't that bother anyone else? That would be changing out the barrel after every 5 seconds of firing. And how many extra barrels do ya haveta hump around with?

[JCitizen]

Thanks Stephen H. Franke - Very interesting info. We shoot the MG-3 here at home all the time. Have to be carefull because it is like a hand held rocket motor. It will knock the uninitiated on their butt. The bad part is you have to have a CLEO letter and special tax to acquire; this letter can be the pitts. I'm thinking of getting a semi-auto version. YAH!No paperwork!

[Fred Reinheimer]

The Imoerial Stormtroopers in the first three Star Wars films carried re-dressed MG3s.

[B.Starnes USMC Ret.]

Is the speed of the Paris Bun REALLY 5,000 FPS? That's just 1 football field under 1 mile per second or somewhere around MACH 5, or is my math skill failing like everything else on this old body.

[B.Starnes USMC Ret.]

Sorry. That was the Paris Gun. Like I said, things are failing me more and more each day.

[John]

The difference between the MG-42 and the MG3 is the calibre.
The resemblance between the MG3 and the M60 is superficial.
The M60 has a german buttstock, 1/2 of the belt feed mechanism(so it can't lift the belt as well, and the op rod and bolt from a Lewis gun. I have NO idea where they got the barrel change system.
WE would have been far better off just copying the MG42. We actually did that in WW2, but the IDIOTS at ordnance missed the fact that the 30-06 was longer and wouldn't clear an 8mm ejection port, so it didn't work. It's the old NOT INVENTED HERE syndrome.
In effect its a horse designed by a committee, resulting in a camel.

[Raffen]

To TexComanche: The 150 round limit is for peacetime operation, so as not to wear out the barrels.

[Kim Guldberg]

For a well trained Crew (Gunner and helper) the changing of a barral takes around 3 seconds and if you are in a prepared position you can cool the hot barral down quickly (if you know how to do it whithout damaging it)

[Gary Montclair]

You lucky dog you. I was attached to the British Army in Bosnia doing Civil Affairs work and got the chance to see and hold, unfortunately not fire,a cherry 9mm Schmeisser sub machine gun from WW2. It had the number 42 stamped on the back of the reciever. The Brits had a great collection of confiscated weapons from the Serb area in MND SW. I was like a kid in a candy store.

[Bill Hass]

During the 5 yrs I was stationed in Germany back in the 80's I had many chances to fire the German MG. As it turned out being a Small Arms Repair Specialist I had a unique opportunity, and I made the best of it. Even earning the Schutzenschnur. as you pointed out the MG is a real "blast"!!!

[geezer72]

the MG3 seems like an excellent weapon in the hands a well trained and competant soldier. Too bad the US military don't wise up and contract to field these outstanding weapons.

[G.R. Schaefer]

After reading about the MG3 I made a special effort today to look at a MG3L light machine gun. Mfg. by Mauser-Werke, in 8 x 57mm cal. dated 1941. The gun is fitted with a bipod, wooden shoulder stock, post front sight plus an auxiliary front sight offset to the left and is centered on barrel from muzzle to breach. The sight is circular with 3 rings, the out side ring is approx. 3.5" in dia., the center ring is approx.1.5" and has cross wires with a dot. Looks similar the sights on 40mm.
anti aircraft guns on navy ships during WW11. The rear sight is also offset to the left. The feed is by a drum magazine from the left.
The gun is on display at the Cody Firearm Museum in Cody, Wyoming.

[Gerald Vaughn]

I work for the National Ground Intelligence Center and we process every kind of ammunition and weapon you could ever imagine. I have heard many horror stories of captured weapons ending up in the wrong hands. Not just being delivered back to insurgents but ending up in the wrong hands on the streets of home town USA.

The problem also is that troops like to use the captured weapons and ammo to train with and many deaths and injuries are occuring.

For information questions involving all weapons systems back to WWI Doctor David Atwater who runs the Army Museum at Aberdeen Proving Groud Maryland is a fantastic source of information.

[Donabell De Apera]

You know what? It is too big and too much weigh to carry by a woman, how about shortening the gun? I mean, convert it using the conversion of units. By inches to decimeter. Isn't it nice to have a smaller one?

[playertwo]

loved firing m60's, first company detail was working on the Malone range for them at Benning. remember the senior drill reaching down and squeezing my whole hand for twenty rounds while I had marlboro butts in my ears.

my favorite picture of the Rangers was in the hedgerows fighting a Sgt has a MG42.
Plus, wasnt Audie Murphy using one in his movie when he earns his first MOH?!!
He turns two in a row against the Germans, right?

great stuff. great blog.

Anybody that went through RIP at Lewis in the 80's mightve fired all their collection off. that was my first shot at an RPK. I thought it was an commie BAR. Nothing like the kraut MG's..

[TEDDYBEAR181]

I personally like this machine gun,developed by the german army during the early stages of the second world war,it has a high catalytic rate of fire,even today it is still a favorite weapon of troops in the know,last seen in real action in the balkans/bosnia conflict,just pack 4 barrels and two donkeys with ammunition,should of developed a cooling system like a 303 vickers gun,shoot for days not minutes..as a collector any body have any information on the schmeiser 9mm machine pistol..mp4O..GERMANS always had superior design..enen my grandmother carrys a H & k

[dean]

me i like the MG42 and the ppsh 41 or the 43 well i love what the MARINE and all the other armed forces are doing over there so THANK YOU

[Prewitt]

Hey "Fartsinsleep"
the M14E2 would be lucky to get a 3ft group at 200yards

[P]

After giving it a work out and photo op. I hope you gave classes to the uneducated on this weapon, after that I would have made it where it wouldnt fire. If the ass bags where detained, then they were detained for a reason (shaking down people) some times we do things to weapons that we dont want to and rendering it unservicable while distasteful is ness. drilling out the barrel in the chamber area would have given them a surprise that I would have paid money to see.

[Richard J Reed]

"First MOH"? To the best of My knowledge No One has ever earned more than One CMOH's.

And Audie Murphy earned His for fighting off advancing German Infantry with a M2 .50
on the top of a burning Tank Destroyer even though he was already wounded.

[Rivo A.]

I assume that people don`t know it yet but Estonians (ESTPLA is the unit designation) are using this "baby" extensively in Iraq! But as I am quite well informed of the happenings with Estonians in Iraq, no weapons have been lost, only gained (last time it was some 30 RPG-s, from an enemy cache). Also, the WWII era 7.92mm MG42 was called the "Hitler`s comb" since it "flattened"(killed or suppressed) the enemy. P.S. We have lost two soldiers there, and its already too much for us (Back home there`s only 1.4 million of us). Rest In Peace brothers, we shall never forget you!

[philip]

that sure is a fine piece of military equipment you "had" there i would also love to have one in fact i would have probably done exactly what you did except i would have kept my m-16 just in case it didnt work properly. But i bet you were in heaven firing that sucker off.

[David]

Nice posting. I hear alot of what I would call horror stories about troops having to give that kind of thing back to people that are an obvious menace. Fun aint it? If I were a general I'd have you keep or blow up every thing you confiscated. Even if it were "iraqi government" property.
And hey, since my taxes went into funding the new IG, doesnt that make everything they use American property?
ah, when logic has no place...
Good luck, and thanks for your service!

[Lanny Donnell]

I'm reading the comments about the MG3 I noticed several references to the M-60 as a POS. Well let me add my 2 cents. Two tours Vietnam 1968, 1969 home to Walter Reed in a body cast in early 70. During the Tet offensive in 1968 that POS M-60 killed so many f__ing gooks you would not believe. Such a sweet bitch. I loved it. Every 11B's best friend. POS I think not.

Lanny Donnell 3/60 Mobile Riverine Force 9th Inf. Div. Mekong Delta

[Dean]

These fine MG3 type machine guns are still manufactured and can be purchased outside the USA.

[Fred]

As a WW2 Vet(Dog Face Soldier,ETO)and speaking from experience, YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE ON THE RECEIVING END OF THAT BAD BOY!! Just to hear it fire will increase your pucker factor to the very high 90s, TOO bad we didn't have something like them.Sure beats our M1919s

[Ray Marchetta]

Its an MG34 in 7.62 Nato. Excellent firearm. Its rate of fire, I believe is about 800 rpm. The Mg42 (an even better firearm) has a rate of about 1200 to 1400 rpm.

[Ryan]

As far as I'm concerned the germans arent that bad sure when some of them get a lil carried away bad things happen but look at the great things they make (Mercedes,MG3,Chocolate) the list goes on

[solomon]

waw!! it's nice i like it

[Ryan]

what ever happened to "misplacing" or phrases that start with "due to situations beyond our control blah blah blah blah we cantgive back your weapon because it wasdamaged durign field stripping blah blah blah. sincereley US military

[Richard J Reed]

POS= Failure of the Brain Housing Group of the Operator

You can take the finest made equipment and WITHOUT proper care and maintance it WILL become a POS. You can't fire a weapon over and over and over with out feeding it some oil or other lubricant and wiping off the excess carbon.

I am not saying to completely break down the weapon in a combat operation but at least
oil the bolt (Remember those 2 little holes in the right side of the M16 Bolt Carrier right where the Gas Rings are? 2 of 3 drops of oil is all thats needed) and trigger assembly. Remove the lose carbon and oil the baked on deposits, the weapon will work better and will be easier to clean up when you do get the chance to do a full cleaning of it.

I served for 10 years in the Army the last 3 as a unit Armorer and Battalion Level weapons instructor.

I carried the M16A1, M1911 and the M60 and the only stopage I ever experianced was from an Ammunition problem (Factory forgot to but powder in the cartridge).

While I was an armorer I never had anyone of the troops I trained come back witha "Weapon" malfunction.

[Ron Stack]

Just think........WE could have had the MG42 for our own troops by the end of WWII if it hadn't been for a "drafting mistake" when our people were drawing it up. 1/4" difference....! Look it up - ref:Small Arms of the World - 1st or 2nd Edition.

[Larry Morrison]

WISH I WAS THERE TO DO SOMETHING. THERE'S A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT OF MAD DOGG SHRIVER IN ME THESE DAYS. If I found a beauty like that and knew I had to give it back to the enemy I'd sabotage it not so it blows up in their face but more so they can't use it. Maybe I'm crazy. The rules shouldn't be broken but bent... However that maybe why I need so many waivers to come help out :)

[Lee F.]

In regards to the CMoH, if my history is correct, Capt. Tom Custer of the 7th Cavalry (brother of George Armstrong), was awarded two CMoH's before he was killed at the Battle of the Little Bighorn.

[Lee F.]

During WWII, the MG42 was referred to as "Hitler's Buzzsaw" by the sound of those 1,200 rounds per minute coming out of the muzzle. If one thinks about it, that's 20 rounds per second!

[brandon yucker]

damm that is a nice gun I gona buy that bicth

[Jackson]

Why play by the rules when our islamofascist enemies arent??Another cluster-f--k by the politicians/big brass. Also, anyone here remember that the Bosnians & the Estonians supported the Nazis in WW2? The guys Clinton wanted killed were the Serbs, who were our allies then.Crazy?? Thanks to all our troops!

[BWJones]

Oh man, the MG3! We had a familiarization with that weapon a lifetime ago now that was one of the most memorable of all. That thing sounds like a rabid dog when you open it up. ROWROWROWROWROWROW.......

Thanks for the memories.

[Mark]

Back in the day, my company (Co.C 2/32 Armor) qualified with the MG3 and G3 from the 134th Panzer Btln. What a great weapon! Around that year the MAG 240 was introduced to us also. A fine weapon, but nothing like the MG3.

[Eric Daniel]

For those of you out there who might have taken umbrage with my describing the M-60 as a POS, let me clarify my reasoning.

Firstly, is the M60 unreliable? No. Out of the box, or properly maintained, it is reliable. I have fired many M60s over the years and have found them to be reliable when properly maintained (I have never fired a new one so I have no baseline performance reference.)

Unfortunately, the majority of the weapons I fired, while still within Army tolerance standards, were so worn that reliability was an issue. Jams (failure to feed) were common, due to insufficient operating pressure, loose gas plugs, and suspect feed mechanisms (As an aside, one of the most common complaints I’ve heard about the old M1911A1 .45 ACP was that you couldn’t hit the side of a mountain with it; my issue .45, which was manufactured in 1944, fired 8 feet to the right, and 4 feet low at 25m. Ordering a replacement fitted barrel, fitted barrel bushing, recoil spring and spring guide rod out of a Brownell’s catalog tightened up my shot group nicely.)

In addition, I found replacing the barrel to be overly exacting given the stresses associated with combat. In both the MG3 and the M240 (a derivative of the FN-MAG) the barrel locking mechanism (and in the case of the M240 the whole barrel) is exposed, thus facilitating barrel swap outs. In fact, in a pinch, the barrels on both the M240 and the MG3 can be replaced by the shooter (no assistant gunner) relatively easily. In the case of the M60, once released, the barrel must be extracted from the protective “cage” that surrounds the barrel and foreguard assembly. The reverse is true when you attempt to insert a fresh barrel in the weapon; you have to fight your way through that “cage.” While this does not affect the reliability of the weapon at all, I believe that it shows poor attention to combat ergonomics when the weapon was designed (for those of you who have ever fired the FN-FAL or G3, the charging handle is located forward on the receiver so that you can more easily charge the weapon while in the prone position.)

Finally, I believe that the ROF of the M60 is simply too slow. Again, when new, things may have been different, but none of the M60s I ever fired could hold a candle to the M240 in terms of ROF, and the MG3 simply blew it away. (For those of you about to raise barrel wear, ammunition consumption, portability flags, yes, the MG3 will get you into a lot of trouble till you master it. However, I am a proponent of training soldiers to the capabilities of their weapons, rather than limiting the capabilities of their weapons to make training easier. This is the same reason why I am not a big fan of the 3-round burst on the M16. While full auto is not the most accurate method of engagement, it certainly has a more suppressive effect than does a 3-round burst.)

The bottom line is, given my choice, I’d take an MG3 over the M60 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[David]

Yeah, the MG3 is a hell of a bad boy, but if you want to experience one REALLY ruggedized weapon, you should try to find an MG4, the predecessor that the germans are feeding their troops now. Cover it in mud, and leave it buried there a day, then dig it out, and continue shooting, like nothing ever happened. Beautiful thing to shoot, too, can be fired like an assault rifle. Very unlikely to find sth like that in iraq, though, but if your lucky, you could find a german patrol in afghanistan, and they let you shoot it.

[Brian]

About the MOH question, Marine Corps legend SMaj Dan Daly (of Belleau Wood fame ) won 2 MOH's.

[Dragon 11]

I guess being from the old school back in the days when being a Machine gunner leading a 3 man team I have different feelings about a M-60. Mounted on a tripod with a good T&E I could reach out and touch someone at a 1000 meters and with a little adjustment and a good range card knock out anthing with-in my maximum effective range in the first burst These hip shooting, bi-pod only John Waynes don't know what a good machine gun is because they don't know how to use the weapon in the first place.

[logartist]

Its the MG34 in Star Wars in limited numbers, but I believe the majority of the Storm Troopers were armed with Sterling SMGs with crap glued on.

[Leo]

why do you call them scruffy iraqis? obviously since thr winning the war and theres a lot less of them, they must be doing something right.

[Corky]

Yep years ago I was "exposed" to the MG42 and it was impressive at 1200 rpm with its quck change Barrel. As I remmember the Germans had a modified version that was an anti-aircraft capable of 1500 rpm!

[fernando martins]

i´m portuguese and i fired and used MG3 on my military service on portuguese marines (fuzileiros)this for us is a heavy weapon and after 5000 rounds you need subs. the barrel for another one normaly we use 4 combat rounds and one traced round and after 250 rounds we try fix our acouracy it´s a nice weapon and is possible fire it laying down on the floor with b.p fix on a suport (car)or standup, but in history of fuzileiros portugueses one fuzileiro portuguese fired two MG3 standup on colonial war (angola-moçambique-guiné)and is the only guy...work with this weapon on war you need two guys one amunition man and a fire man and is a weapon with 14kilos without amunition is very heavy to do long walks

[siege]

I find it amusing that american soldiers have to "confiscate" superior weaponry from "scruffy iraqis" because their civilian commanders won't equip them with. I mean, give your bosses credit, they are really busy handing out contracts to the same weapons makers for the same 20th century crap that gets my family killed.

On a more amusing note, leave it to Westerners, specifically US soldiers, to get all butt-hurt about having to give the spoils of war back to the non-westerners you take it from. At least when we give Iraq back to its socio-economic elites, you soldiers will realize what a drag it is and only the civilian leadership will whine about having to "give up my" Iraq. Hilarious.

[Don]

MG-42 a POS? I recommend you visit some of the G.I. cemetaries in France and Belgium. Full of the MG-42's handiwork...

[Tami]

Hell yeah I'll say Hello to your Little MG3, but only if I can have one to! I'll be careful..... no but really thank you for all you have done for this country. My hunny is a Marine.. so i know.

[James]

When it comes to copying German weaponry, nobody does it like the Russians!! They took blueprints for a new German round, scaled up an MP44 to fit this new round and hey presto... they had a gun which they claimed 'they' invented - The AK-47!!!

[Andy]

Despite how good of a weapon the MG42 might have been, theres some good reasons we didn't adopt it. The major being the fact that it was a German gun, and the nation wouldn't have supported adopting anything German at that point in time. From a military standpoint, the major reason for not even looking for something like the MG42 was that it was designed as a defensive weapon and when we got involved in WW2, a defensive weapon was not what we needed.

[Meckie]

Hi

I also shot with this fine MG in my army time in German military.
Extreme recoil but ver powerful.
But in future MG3 will be mounted on vehicles and used on check-points.
Germany plans to develop a new 7.62mm MG. :-(

[Lowell Kenney]

From one River Rat to another I agree with Lanny Donnel, I loved the M60 and outside of user error never had any problems. The only flaw was they would not feed well from a hanging belt of ammo unless you ran the ammo belt over your arm or attached a B3A C-Ration can to the ammo box clip on the infeed side. I bet my life on the M60 many times. Rate of fire has little to do with field effectiveness as compared to fire control and effective aiming. We had hard enough times to carry enough ammo for the M60 as we waded our way through the delta.

Lowell Kenney 4/47th Mobile Riverine Force 9th Inf. Div. Mekong Delta, 3/5 Cav Quang Tri Province and 56th Combat Photo Team, Tan An 3rd Brigade, 9th ID

[Duke]

For the Record, 20 men have been awarded the MOH twice, two of
whom were Old Corps Marines: Sgt Major Dan Daly, and General Smedley Butler. Audey Murphy was awarded 1 MOH, but was awarded a total of 32 combat related awards. Brave Men All.

SEMPER FI

[SGT Malham, Jon P.]

Where do I begin with this Post yes I will give props to all german made weapons and german made products it seems our european Fathers Mothers Brothers and Sisters have had longer to develope them since thats where we came from anyway, But the quote from the Author of this post was that the weapon of conversastion was confiscated when they "detained a collection of Iraqi oil and pipeline security folk" Can not go unnoticed. Those Civillian Security Gaurds have orders By their govenment "The Iraqi Government that the US Military is backing"to Search, detain all suspicious characters that may have the intent of causing harm to or destroying the pipeline. So more to the point if the author had "accidentally" damaged the weapon and gave it back and one of those Civillians got hurt the author would be held Liable. Now those civilian who work for the Iraqi Government doesn't mean that they are Iraqi most of those guy's are Kurdish, Saudi arabian contracted workers. Now on to another subject to combat that scruffy faced iraqi comment by some uninfomed buffoon. Here in Iraq we have two types of Iraqi forces: IA Iraqi Army fighting side by side with Coalition forces, and AIF Anti Iraqi Forces which are the ones who lay IED's, drive sucide bomb Vehicles or vbied's, and wear suicide vests under layers of clothing to get close to Coalition, and IA to cause the most damage, and fight with gorilla style tactics. Now don't take this post lightly I am Pro america I just don't agree with some of the uniformed judgemental posts on this thread.

[Julio M. Flores]

To i hate US ARMY

It's a good thing I'm a Marine otherwise I would take it personal. Have a Happy Mother's Day.

[Phil Baker]

Strangest thing I ever saw with any MG: the Israeli Desert Camel Anti-Smuggling Patrols with Browning 30 cal aircooled MGs mounted on their camel saddles... and for those negative comments from US Army haters: we don't hate you; just come at us while armed, and we will deal with you... have a nice day.

[William Breslow]

This was my baby when I was over there. I was the weapons master in charge of identifying and cataloging the Captured Enemy Weapons. We had all the above listed weapons and more. There were a total of 3 MG3s that we came across. We also came across one M1911 and over 100 M1911A1s from WWII. The most interesting pieces that I saw there were the American weapons, M3A1 Grease Gun, M1 Grand, even one 1903 Springfield. All the time I wondered how these weapons came to be in our possession. If those weapons would talk what would their stories be? Well we will never know. EOD was ordered to dispose of all weapons that were not going to be re-issued. (Personally I thought that those weapons would better serve as exhibits in the Army Museum in Belvoir)

[Jerry in Detroit]

Hi Eric,

No surprise the gun was found 'bone dry'. This was common practice in the region during WW2 and still works if the gun is properly designed. I don't suppose anyone thought to get some movie footage?

Jerry

[Andrew Lundberg]

To Curt Layman:
Re: Paris Gun
There were actually three made, I believe. Each was supplied with progressively larger diam. shells because of the severe barrel wear with each round. After the shells were used up, the barrel had to be replaced or re-bored.
The trajectory of the shell took it out of the atmophere. It's time of flight required the rotational differnces between the gun's position and Paris had to be calculated because the gun was further north than Paris and, therefore, rotating relatively slower than Paris.
A good pictorial history of WW1, such as tfhe American Heritage version, or the like, can give you the info. A

[Andrew]

Lee is right, the "DTL-19 Heavy Blaster Rifle" seen in use by stormtroopers in Star Wars A New Hope in scenes on Tatooine were made-up MG-34s and MG-42s.

[adnan]

thats a nice rife for the dume people star war is not real u noob its war were in the real one i well be fighting soon for it

[R Tam]

Given the condition you found it in, do you really think the Iraqis that you originally confiscated it from would have missed it if you forgot to give it back to them? Also, did you consider returning it back in its original discovered state?

[runforest]

the Czechoslovakians made the Bren gun . We fired it in the Australian Army Cadets . this machine gun would jump forward as you fired it . it didn't butt back at you . we studied captured Viet Cong and NVA training films made by the French. In the Rudyard Kipling book " KIM " ; Kim sought the regimental flag of his Father . He was promised he would be welcomed and taken care of by the regiment. The British regimental flag was a Red Bull on a Green Field . Everyone does need a place where they feel they belong . Army cadets offered not only an Aussie kit, uniform and all ; but you learned a lot of fascinating features of soldiering . anyone who makes it back from a war is damn lucky . good luck and master your craft .

[Phil]

My uncle fought in WWII during the D-Day landings and then across France and into Germany with Patton's 3rd, until he was wounded in the leg and sent home.

He told me there as nothing worse than being on the receiving end of an MG42 (MG3) that was handled by an experienced gunner. The Germans platoons would have one or two of these and everyone carried as much ammo for it as they could. He tried to described the sound it made and it wasn't until years later when I saw 'Saving Private Ryan' that I understood what he ment.

Needless to say he 'liberated' one at the first oppertunity that presented itself and mounted it to their vehicle. At night they would set it up, aimed at the front door of whatever building or barn they were sleeping in.

[L.J. Brooks]

For you Americans who have the proper paperwork (or know someone who does) here is a link where you can buy an ORIGINAL MG-42 from an authorized dealer up here in Canada.
http://www.marstar.ca/fullauto/G-MG-42.htm

Lots of other goodies also!

[JCitizen]

RE: POS - The M60 isn't the worst design made; but the operating rod was. At least all the ones I worked on. The metal wasn't properly hardened up under the roll cam and it would dent and develope a bad burr that would knock out the weapon.

The current model in contract by SACO Defense (a division of General Dynamics), supposedly has this and other design flaws,[like the step and bend receiver] whipped.

I read a lot of reports that the Marines are pretty happy with the results. I invite any Marine to add their input to this discussion.

[VooDOo]

FWIW, according to the CMOH Official web site, there have been 19 Double CMOH recipients. Here is the link:
http://www.cmohs.org/recipients/double.htm

[William Alexander Patton]

Nah, did you say dust and dirt , no Nato ammo in hand ? What kind of Iraqi soliders/police were they and how far out into no-where could your team have driven and left them, to walk bare-footed to their nearest town other than where you were ? Well so much for " Who's looking " and " Not that we can recall " if asked after giving them a fearful ride blind-folded. You might not know this, during World War II, in occupied Holland when captured German soliders were used for labor detail to repair roads during the American advance to Berlin, that if they stepped in any other way than what was the designated order, they were shot dead, that insured compliance and the Germans understood from that point on what they got if they didn't listen.. I understand from just about every available news intel, from friends who were there and did the job and as occupational forces, still paid the price even after the war's end. For what its worth, you guy's did what was necessary and the spirit and faith to keep each other alive in a war far from the US. Realize there are us who remember, that coming home alive is the most important celebration of all. The MG should have been lost along with the other weapons, then parted out and sent with prior mailings back home. The last part, the receiver, to be painted some weird color or colors, empty and hollow, taken as a wacha-ma-jigger item that you pick-up for the folks back home! The " Military ", the " Service "are use to looking for drab and camo not anything empty and in bright civilian colors, the very nature speaks out, " tourist item and would be considered harmless including any other colorful junk you'd bring stateside. Alterntive, the item becomes a part of the squad's vehicle which comes home with you, especialy if it's National Guard. No, this is just good old yankee-nuity and where not talking dope smuggling or terrorist bullshit, but what should be Constitional right to spoils of War... Thank's for all the service that our Nation asked of you and may you some day be a grandfather and tell your advantures (and that's what they'll be) and ask your grand-kid, do you want to see what in the closet that grandpa brought back from a great war long ago ? See ya

[pudftpcc]

On a weapons harvest im Bosnia, our platoon picked up a buncha parts out of which we made one working M53 (Yugo clone of MG42, in 7.92mm Mauser). We had lots of fun firing "for familiarization." After which the poor weapon got run over by a tank, then put in a blast furnace. We also got parts from real Wehrmacht MG34s but not enough to make a working one.

[chris]

Don't be too sure that confiscated weapons are "given back" to people. While the rules say that civilians are allowed a weapon for self-defense, if they were caught being naughty, they normally didn't get them back.

I spent 15 months as MNF-I's associate military historian, and developed the program for captured weapons. We had several CONEXes full, and were shipping rare ones (MP-44s, etc.) back to museums. Common ones (AK series, SVDs, RPGs, etc.) were stored and prepped for reissue to the new Iraqi army.

It was disappointing, though, to see the IPs (Iraqi police) with brand-spankin' new Glock 17s and 19s, while we were stuck with M16A2s and M9s (we carried both).

[r.k.j.]

Well it is perfectly obvious that you are having sex with your weapoms: and it is good to know that the ILLEGALLY detained Iraquis have been released with YOUR sex toy.

Really, now we know why this war is nothing but a hiding place for idiots.

Have fun in "heaven" if this is what you really prefer.

I just think life is about something more intelligent than clearly racist little boys with BIg german nazi toys.

[Abu Moomit]

Hey Seige, and R.K.J.
Did you look at what this blog is?
It a blog about wepons.
Idiots? More intelligent?
Maybe you should check your spelling before posting. Where did you learn your English, English for dummies? Yes we like to talk about guns, because that is what we send you to hell with, while we take your virgins.
Abu Moomit

[r.k.j.]

Behemoth, Assiduous, An acronym,
Laudable, Gregarious, Foist, Interrogative,
Duplicitous, Nomenclature, Polemics
>>>>>>>>> yes, you are correct of course: English for Dummies :D

And my virgins say they would rather be in hell with me...
because hell is a place where you and your weapons of mass destruction are not permitted.

Right mate?

Dick Cheney(your master for life)

[r.k.j.]

My apology, I have been very inconsiderate of the nature of this blog.

This is true what you say,
that you do have a true shortage of Virgins and Oil.

It is good to know that the women of America have assigned you to eliminate virgins but I say this will not alleviate your Virgin Oil shortages anytime soon :D

American women believe they are the authority for all women of the world because they are afterall.. the Supreme beings.

So maybe it is me who has already taken your Virgins. :)

Imagine that.

[thierry alain]

i'm ivorian soldier and i would like to meet or discuss with other soldier.
thank you

[Dude]

The MG (40-43) of medium guns was one of the fines things the Germans did. It is now how we op our sqads. Lihgt portable cover fire so you manuaver. Two squads with a SAW each and a M-60 to cover can take alot of Real Estate PDQ. House to house they are much less effective. That's why you have the SAWs. A Bradley would help out in that area. I guess we don't have enough of those to go around. Neutron bombs are expensive and too many collatorals, not that would be anyone left to talk about it. So we have to do it the old way. Hell, we still have troops in how many countries from WWII. People BITCH about the 4 or so years that we've
been in Iraq. I think most of Media have a CHRONIC case of Cranial Rectumitis. Tell them to reach between thier legs, grab thier ears, and pull untill they hear a large POP.

On another note, Reduction in troops is not the answer.Send in as many as we can! Pussy Footing is only going to let them regroup and do it again!

I know our "ALLIES" are trying to help. LOL LMAO!!
Such is life on the war of the bad guys!

What our kids don't realise, many of you who are reading this is that Southern Europe was once controlled by the Sareceans. They want it back. They have most of Maylaisa already. 72 Virgins sounds nice,right? So, what happens when they figrue out that they don't have a virgin on Day 73!!

Remember what the Gen. said at Bastone, when he was surrouded by the Germans?

He was asked to surrender.

His reply was "NUTS"

That is all for right now, Ladies and Gentlemen.

I hope I haven't offended your delicate senseablities.

Feel free to comment, chew my ass, bitch, ect.

JAY84462000@yahoo.com

[Dude]

Hey r.j.k.

You want to know why we have no Virgins?

That way we can keep them away from Freaks like you.

Why would you want one anyway?

They don't know how to do anything in except rub a toy between thier legs!

Anyway, why would they spend time with you, with one ball blown off (I'm not talking about girls or boys for that matter) I guess you didn't have the SEMTAX strapped on right. If you can't get yourself blown, why would you expect someone else to do it for you