Me and my M-14

Submitted by Eric Daniel

Ok, this story takes a while, so bare with me.

I was mobilized for OIF III on Veteran’s Day (go figure), November 11th, 2004.  Two days later I was at Ft. Bliss going through 30 days of accelerated training to prepare me for deployment.  As part of that training program I was issued an M-16A2 from the unit to which I was going to be assigned (which was, at that time, embarking for Kuwait.)  Upon inspection, I determined that the rifle’s front sight post was bent, and that the weapon was deadlined.  I brought this to the attention of the Major distributing the weapons (out of the back of a black Suburban, no less) and asked if I might get a replacement.

“Sorry Sergeant, no can do. All these weapons are getting issued tonight, and there aren’t enough to go around. You’ll just have to make do.”

Fair enough, I said, and moved out smartly.  The next day, out on the zero range, I explained the situation to the range safety who said, “No problem, we can fix that right now” and he whipped out his Gerber-tool and proceeded to straighten the bent post.

Ping -- There went the post, snapped in half.

“Oh well, nothing to be done about it now. You’ll have to get it fixed when you get to your unit in Kuwait."

Thirty days later I was stepping off the bus in Kuwait, armed with an un-zeroed and un-serviceable M-16, trying to find out my unit of assignment.  Eventually I found my First Sergeant, who directed me to the Supply Sergeant, who told me everything had already gone north into Iraq, and I’d have to get the sight fixed there.  In addition, all available ammunition had been issued and I would have to wait till I got to Iraq to draw my basic load.

Five days later I was stepping off a Chinook in the dead of night armed with five duffel bags and an un-zeroed, un-serviceable, and un-loaded M-16.  Three days after that I found myself attached to the ING (Iraqi National Guard) training program.

Here’s where my luck finally took pity on me.  While going through the supply room looking for things to steal for the ING, I saw a number of M-14s piled in a corner collecting dust.  I asked the Supply Sgt. if I could sign one out, since it appeared to me that they weren’t doing much good there on the floor.  He asked me if I’d ever qualified on one before, “oh sure, lots of times” (in a previous life maybe…) and then signed over one rifle, one scope, a scope mount, and one magazine.

“That’s all we have”, he said.  No manuals, no parts, no nothing.  I was going to have to figure everything out on my own.

The first issue was the incompatibility between the scope mount and the rings that came with the scope.  The scope, a Leupold Mk IV 4.5 – 14 M1 LR/T using Leupold’s QRW detachable rings, was not resting properly on the supplied scope mount, a Springfield Armory Gen. III mount.

“It won’t work” was the reply I got via e-mail from Leupold on the subject.  The SA mount is not to MIL-STD-1913 standard, they said.  I needed to either get a standard picatinny mount, or get SA rings. 

I opted to get a new mount.  The mount I chose was the A.R.M.S. #18 M-21/M-14 scope mount.  In addition, I purchased an A.R.M.S. #19 Throw lever QD mount (for the Leupold scope) and an A.R.M.S. #20 for an AN/PVS-4 night sight.

With my rifle-mount-scope issued resolved, my next task was to get ballistic data (dope) on the various bullets at my disposal, namely M80 Ball (146 gr FMJ), M852 (168 gr Match) M118 (173 gr Match) and M118LR (175 gr Match.)  Searching the internet provided me with enough suspect information (what?!? doubt the internet?!? heratical, I know…) that I decided I needed an authoritative source for ballistic data.

Enter the Army’s Marksmanship Unit (USAMU) at Ft. Benning, GA.  I e-mailed them regarding my needs, as well as describing the equipment I was using. Their response was thorough and quick. They not only gave me ballistic tables for all the ammunition I requested, but they broke it down by drop (in inches) and in “clicks”, for both the M1 series of scopes (.25 MOA adjustments) and the M3 scopes (1 MOA adjustments.) Their data was spot on and saved me hours of trial and error effort. I cannot say enough about the support they offered.

To round out my M-14 kit I ordered an additional 5 magazines (USGI original manufacture $30 each, new), an M-14 “dash ten” operators manual as well as the “dash twenty-three” parts manual, cartridge extractor, gas plug wrench, and an M-14 lube kit.

Finally, after a month or so of exchanging e-mails with companies all over the U.S. I had the mounts I needed, the rings I needed, the ballistic data I needed and the bullets I needed.  I was officially in business.

Lessons learned

To get “my” M-14 operational required about $700 on my part and a month of e-mails and internet searches.  Once I started taking the M-14 on missions, I began to make notes on where I could improve my original setup.

Stock: The rifle came with a standard wood stock.  While this was all good and well, it was also bone dry, and in need of touching up.  A search in-country poroduced no linseed oil (you’d be surprised how many folk have no idea what “boiled linseed oil” is) so I had to have my mother send me a quart.  An alternative to wood, though, is getting a synthetic stock.  While there are a number of stock manufacturers out there (I myself purchased an M3A stock from McMillan Brothers ) what you have to be aware of is wether the stock you buy is set up for an M-14 reciever or the Springfield Armory M1A reciever (M-14 recievers have a semi - full auto selector switch which has been deactivated, but still projects from the reciever, whereas the M1A reciever lacks this and mounts flush in the stock.)  Either of the recievers will go into an “M-14” stock, but the M-14 reciever will not go into an M1A stock without carving out a notch for the defunkt selector switch.

Furthermore, stocks come in two basic styles; drop in, and bedded.  Drop in stocks are ready as is. You drop in the reciever and you’re in business.  Bedded stocks require the reciever be “bedded” to the stock, which generally involves a gunsmith drilling mounting holes in the reciever and fitting a pair of mounting pins.  Bedding a rifle stock is most definitely not a do it yourself job.  If you don’t know what your doing you can get yourself killed.  If, however, you have the time, resources, and permission from your food chain to get your M-14 “bedded” it will be the better for it.

Scope mount: As I said, my original mount was the A.R.M.S. #18.  While this mount did what I asked of it, the one issue I did have with it was occasional ejection failures (the spent casing would get hung up in the chamber because of the narrow opening between the chamber and the bottom of the scope mount.)  Looking to correct this issue (jams are a bad thing, after all) I went looking for a different mount.  What I settled on was the Smith Enterprise, Inc. M-14 mount. This mount can trace its liniage back to the original Brookfield Precision Tool mounts manufactured for the M-25 sniper rifle.  Since going to the SEI mount I haven’t experienced a single jam. In addition, I also picked up an extended bolt stop release, which basically makes it easier to manipulate the bolt stop while wearing gloves.

Bullet drop compensators (BDC): While the data provided by the USAMU was spot on, it was still a lot of data to remember, and considering that I carried several types of ammunition on me at any given time, refering to index cards in a firefight wasn’t a viable option.  My solution was to get a retractable ballistics chart (RBC) from Leupold.  The RBC fits on the scope, where it's out of the way, and contains a self retracting tape upon which you can write down ballistic data. When in doubt, I need only pull out the tape and confirm my settings.

Another option recently offered by Leupold, is custom etched bullet drop compensators (BDC.)  The BDC differs from the standard windage knobs in that they are custom built to your rifle and ammunition and are graduated by range.  What this means is that with a BDC you don’t need to count “clicks” when applying windage, you just rotate the BDC windage knob to the appropriate range and you’re set. This is also a lifesaver when it comes to re-setting your scope after making several range adjustments. I haven’t gone this route yet, but if ever I get tapped for deployment again, I will probably have some built (just in case.)

Comments

[Dave]

Great Article! When I was in the Navy the M-14 became a fast favorite of mine as well. I soon plan to buy a M1A real soon. Too bad the federal government wont sell them to the public as they become "obsolete".

[Timothy Jones]

Right on Sergeant when life gives you lemons make lemonade you were given a sour weapon and you improvised and got a not only an M-14 but the best weapon you could bring to field evermade.That rifle got me through Vietnam fighting the V.C you take care of "OLD TRUSTIE" and she take care of you. HOOAH

[Jon Flynn]

That M14 looks familier. I think I have a picture of you carrying on the street in Bayji. Drop me a note when you get a chance.

Sgt Flieyn

[Doug]

Hey Sarge, I bought a brand new Springfield Armory (loaded) M1A. I had (a M14)in the Marines. It's something that will knock 'allah' into the next solar system easy. Reach out and touch one for me! Stay safe.
Doug, Tracy, Ca.

[Doug]

Hey Sarge, I bought a brand new Springfield Armory (loaded) M1A. I had (a M14)in the Marines. It's something that will knock 'allah' into the next solar system easy. Reach out and touch one for me! Stay safe.
Doug, Tracy, Ca.

[Doug]

Hey Sarge, I bought a brand new Springfield Armory (loaded) M1A. I had (a M14)in the Marines. It's something that will knock 'allah' into the next solar system easy. Reach out and touch one for me! Stay safe.
Doug, Tracy, Ca.

[Troy Glover]

I dont care what anybody says about ya Eric Daniel - ADAPT , IMPROVISE , OVERCOME ... your a smart Man . and got yourself into an M-14 ... The 5.56x45 is just a litle light for terrain & conditions Ya All are fighting in right now ! ... FN manufacturing has got that new SCAR weapons system about to head your way ... One in 5.56x45 , the other in 7.62x51 , no more 3 shot burst .. Semi or fullauto ! ... that 7.62 SCAR rifle sure would be nice to sling on with your M-14 .. Until then .. outstanding job . thanks for your service ... Soldier on with that M-14 .

OOHH RAAHH

[Frank Stinton Jr.]

You can't go wrong with an M-14. Sounds like you got it set up right too.
I have 4 of them in different configs of course. National Match, Standard de-milled M-14, SOCOM 16 and a SOCOM II. With what you have the rules have gotten better in your favor. You win They DIE!
Good rules HUH? Thank you for your service you all are my heros. My thoughts and those of my family are with you all.
Gods speed, and come home safely.
Thank you all
Frank Stinton Jr.

[Rodney Caylor]

Are you sure you are not a Marine in Army clothing. The worst thing the Marine Corps did was go to the M16. To me it goes against the Marine policy of aimed fire and making rounds count. The M14 was there when you needed it and it would reach and touch someone.

[Mike Adams]

Ask for a M21 if you can, its a modified M14 which is a modified M1 Garand, my old guard units snipers Alaskan Scouts, lost their M21s and replaced with the M24, a nice weapon if your a normal sniper such as police, but not very good if your an old style sniper/hunter of men. It just does not last, and not good for field craft. But heh, we are talking people who shoot polar bears for survival, and moose or rabbits on the fly.

Mike Adams
Alaska

[Bill]

Enter the Army’s Marksmanship Unit (USAMU) at Ft. Benning, GA. .... " I cannot say enough about the support they offered."

That's great. At least someone could get you a working-weapon and the specs, even IF they are nowhere NEAR the battle zone.

I hope you never have any problems with Dinner.

God Bless.

[Rick Donaldson]

Wow... broken sights, no one can help you, you're out of luck. Man, you made your luck :)

I think they ought to let you keep that weapon. I used to shoot one back in the 1970s in JROTC in High School back in Michigan. I love my AR-15 that I own now, and the two weapons I "owned" in the Air Force over the years were awesome weapons, but nothing kicks like a Fourteen! :)

[Barry Messer]

Great story! I'm glad the M14 worked for you. I was issued one in 1965 in basic and had nothing but trouble with it.
Sarge you are one great soldier!!!!

[Larry]

Hey Marine,
Awesome job you did in getting what you needed. Also, you did get the best field weapon a Marine can have. I know, I was trained on both M-14 and M-16. The M-14 is superior, by far. The 14 is real work horse, but the 16 will break down if ya sneeze. Ooo Raa.

[Ed Aucoin]

We used the M14 in Basic Training at Ft Ord 1965. They told us the rifle could be made full auto with a selector switch handle that fits on the shaft you see. They did not issue the handle to us, but told us the Quartermaster had them and we'd get one if it became necessary. Never saw one.

[Jon]

Had an M14 as the Crypto room security weapon in Korea, 1972; it's full automatic selector switch was still operable -- got the chance to range fire it on full auto - great weapon but it would take two men to hold it down when in full auto mode! - after the first two rounds there is no accuracy!

[Steve lwis]

That is the very reason tat M16A1 have a 3 shot birst. It to will clime, and you waist ammo. But if you compair the knock down power the M14 is by far the better rifle. Be proud son, that you have one. Also make sure you have a great knife. VietNam combat Vet.

[Robert Weeks, SSG Ret]

When all else fails compromise and make the best out of what you've got.

Sarge, You do us all proud.

God Bless and hurry home safely.

[Paul Kinney]

Sarge,
You have done it all, improvised, adapted, overcome!
What a disgrace you had to pay for it!!! The US government should hang it's head in shame, you should be getting equipment that is standard issue. Who ever is getting the big kick back on tthe M-16 still being purchased should be found and gotten rid of. A grunt needs a real rifle, not some piece of plastic that may be good for shooting rabbits, if you can get it to work. I used a 7.62 SLR based on the Belgian FN, it was a standard issue rifle in the Australian Army in Viet Nam, you guessed it, a real rifle.
Sarge, good luck, may your God keep you in the palm of his hand, and keep you safe!
Paul Kinney
Aussie Rifleman

[m00]

So, can you fire your m14 off full auto with minimized recoil?
Have you tried?

[P.K. Petersson AT1 USNR]

Great Job! Used the M14 for everything from ground defense team, Shipboard MAA and burial details. Always reliable! Never let me down. Stay safe and God Bless!

[JC Karrantza]

When I was deployed for OIF II to East Baghdad, I was issued a Winchester M14 in addition to my M4. I switched out often using the M4 mostly for hard entries and for my gunner to use in the hatch. Despite taking a lot of guff for it, I found I preferred the 14 for dismounted patrols in the city. Often our terrain range in the concrete canyons would be somthing like thrity meters to the left and right and 500m+ to the front and back. I spent a lot of time on rooftops like the Sheraton Hotel so would turn the gas switch off (changing from semi to bolt action) for the added shot stability.
I was issued a springfield GEN III mount like you but I never had any jam problems with it. In fact mine never jammed once the whole year. just luck I guess. Along with a Leupold Vari-X 3.5-10 power mil dot. zeroed to 400m I could hold over from 50 to 800m inside the reticle. I did have to get some help from friends at home for a new spring and op rod which had been drilled by someone for hot loads which caused cycling problems. and of course the round extractor and wrench. In all I probably had to spend about $350.
I normally carried eight mags(five of which I had to buy myself)of m118LR and a magazine of tracer to mark targets with at distance. (a tip I got from Gunny Hathcock's SOP). I had wood stock but it was varnished and never swelled on me. Althogh I did want a McMillan stock for the pistol grip and bipod mounting point.
In all My M14, #10119184 ("Lily") never gave me single problem after the spring/rod replacements. I adored that weapon and would go back with her in a heartbeat. To be frank, I would go anywhere in the world with a 14.

[Mark]

I carried that rifle, both the standard and later the sniper version, for several years. If you need ANYTHING let me know. If I don't have it or the answer I am sure I can get it.
Mark
FLPD1310@Bellsouth.Net
Oh - good job identifying a problem and solution

[John Scanlan]

Brings tears of amnesia to my dim eyes...the year was, well, Project Mercury was in it's infancy (recall the excellent movie The Right Stuff). This 18 year old fire eater, and his M-14, were tighter'n ticks on a dawg. Fast-forward a coupla lifetimes; the once-18 year old is in a barber shop in sunny Kuwait, which, it seems, is roughly a few thousand clicks from the sun. In walks a member of the current crop of 18 year olds, totin' a familiar-lookin piece of gear...the ole Mama-14! That 18 year-old fire eater, allowing this relic to hold the ole piece, was, perhaps, the best gift I could have received during that tour...next to boarding that freedom bird. Thanks, Soldier!

SSG John Scanlan
USA (Ret)

[Big Jim]

The M-14 is far better then the M-16. If you could take two troopers and have them stand side by side the one with the M-14 would hit the furest target .Now in combat ,you want to keep the enemy as far away from you as possible and still be able to kill them. that's what the M-14 is for plus look at the knock down power of that weapon.

[Rod T]

Sounds like a case of good initiative but bad judgment. I commend your efforts to turn a sh!t sandwich into a gourmet feast but sounds like time could have been better spent seeking out the replacement front sight post.
You could have purchased one on the net and had it shipped from the states in a matter of days. Far less time than the month it took to get all the other garb. Lot of work for a novelty weapon.

Semper Fi Mac.

[Alan]

I'm sure glad you're on our side! It's guys like you with initiative and perseverance that make us the best military force in the world. Thank you for your service.

[Steve]

I'm pretty glad that there are so many M-14 lovers out there because I'll be getting the M-21 (Synthetic stock,otherwise the same as an M-14) in addition to my M-4 soon, and it's good to know it's one of those weapons that you can count on. I'm far too young to remember the 14 but I have seen it on tv. It'll be great to have a reliable accurate weapon for my DM responsibilites

[SGT. Richard C]

The M-14 celebrates it's 50th anniversary this year 2007 in anministering Justice. See the SRSS-14 @ www.ShortRifles.com

[Matt]

Hey...how about some "in the field" reading on how it ended up working out for you vs. shooting that coiled up spring loaded M16

[SFC Hillis]

Get to drop any fuckers?

[FMFDoc]

My one question is....WHY? M16 front site posts are a dime a dozen in theatre, any armorer could have hooked up a resourceful Sergeant. It sounds like you had a lot of time on your hands, especially if it took you 30+ days to get that relic operational. I'm sure your fireteam loved that. I applaud your efforts and your service, but I feel your time could have been better spent.

[Eric Daniel]

A little clarity here. Once I arrived in Iraq (I got to my unit that is) and things settled down, I was able to get a front sight post easily enough (there were boxes of them in supply) and repair the M-16 I was issued. However, by that time I had already initiated my M-14 crusade. Having used the M16A2 in Desert Storm, I was less than impressed with it’s durability, reliability and lethality and saw the M14 as an upgrade in all areas, so having acquired the weapon, I was less than enthusiastic about giving it up (to this day I’d rather carry the M-14 over any member of the M-16/M-4 family.) The reality is, once I had my M-16 repaired I patrolled with it until I got the M-14 operational, whereupon I parked the M-16 next to my cot.

I wrote this piece not so much as to highlight the difficulty in getting my assigned weapon repaired (more than anything else I was a victim of bad luck) but rather in the hope that should someone else find themselves in a similar situation, they would know where to turn to for the resources needed to put the weapon into service.

Finally, yes, $700 seems like a lot of money to spend out of pocket to place a government issued weapon into service, and yes, everything I purchased was available through the Army’s supply system, however I did not have the time to waste waiting for the system to figure out how to order the parts. Having ordered the parts however, they’re mine now, and if ever the Army issues me another M-14 it won’t take me a month to get that thing up to speed.

[T.E.Chester]

Years ago I worked as an "Agressor" after AIT. I used an M-14. Loved it. Had no problems with it. Used the blanks from an M-60 for ammo. Only problem I EVER had was when I tried a "combat" load with an extra round and the spent casing didn't eject. That was very quickly fixed.
The stock was made out of plastic it wasn't wood. It did have the butt plate that did swing out. I tried using it but found I didn't need to.
Yes the weapon was heavy, but it was very very reliable. You could get it dirty and it would still work. I loved it.
There was a follow up on the M-14 which was the M-14A-2. If you ever see a picture of it you'll see how they made an excellent weapon even better.

[Victoria]

You know...there should be a way you could at least deduct the cost of upgrading your M14 from your taxes. Good job on making something from nothing in the situation that you had. My goodness - do I need to start a letter campaign to make sure you guys get your equipment when you need it? It just makes me shake my head.

[tom baxter]

sarge, sounds like youve got the resorces to do what needs to be done. thats great.when i got tired of lugging my m79 in nam i traded with a guy going in for his m14.not like i could go test fire it in the sticks without wigging guys out so first time to have to use it it jammed up on single shots and had to use my fingers and p38 on each round. i still have nightmares about that.still wonder how long the guy that had it knew about the problem and if he did why not let me know.was stuck with it for 2 weeks in the sticks untill we went back to resuply.single shot rifle sucks when you need firepower.never did find that guy.but all during my training and qualifying i used an m14.best all around rifle out there.like a chevy 327. ha.it was easy to adjust and took a lot of puishment and dust and mud but kept on fireing just like the old 45.the m16 couldnt take as much punishment or it would jam up.you worked your butt off trying to keep them clean and oiled but between the choppers and the rain and mud it boiled down to the rifle.keep your butt down and know we are thinking about you. come home safe. tom baxter

[playertwo]

having hunted a lot up in Michigan for white tails a lot before I went down to Benning I feel in with the eskimos for the ANG and hit 38-40 my first qual for my camo cover. remember all that stuff? boy that was '82..
what all that hunting taught me was that it does really all depend and that for most bolos an M16 is that better bet because an idiot can fire it and lay down a base of fire for boundin etc.
but once you go actually walking for miles through the woods for a deer tenderloin, theres no better feeling than laying in a long shot that wasnt expected.
just as I would want someone with a 203 in my team I sure as hell would want an M14 around to do big damage long distance. It pains me that the article started with a pile of m14's. what is that?!!
and when did the Army get so damned mickey mouse and not have everyone trick out their weapons for the best accuracy?
I wouldve had a towel with rubber bands on that thing to make a monte carlo.
Good luck bro and dont get stuck in any doorways with that pipe.

[Neal Stapel]

Let me know if you need ammo for your m-14. List the type and an amount. It will be provided to you at no charge. I can be reached via myspacehttp:

www.myspace.com/nealsparchment

[JamesA]

My congrats to a superior member of "our sisters in green"! I was first issued a 14 in USMC boot camp (1970). Did all my quals with one for the first year I was in. Was issued a 16 in Nam, it jammed the first time I needed it... Couldn't get a 14, picked up an AK-47 which served me well the rest of my time in the jungle. The only drawback was, it tended to draw a lot of 'friendly fire', mostly from Army types...

[Jim Tate]

I used a M14 in Nam as a Marine
and also fired the M1 in Boot Camp, But I tell you for accuracy no weapon can beat the M14,you can lay back at 3-400 yards and your enemy hasn't got a prayer.
It was McNamara (Sec. Defense)
Johnson's adminstration that shoved the M16 down the throats of the fighting man, Even the Army protested to no avail. McNamara was a Ford Motor co. paper pusher. he was the idiot that caused us to loose the Vietnam War.
Johnson stayed drunk during the war and McNamara run the war. He didn't want to make the Chinese or Russians mad at us.I know because I was there in Washington guarding Pres. Johnson in 64.

[Eric]

The original intent of the M16 series was to provide a lighter rifle that was more controlable in full-auto fire, and one which would allow the soldier to carry more ammuition for the same weight in the "basic load" (I don't know for certain, but how many guys carry a "basic load" for combat? I doubt many, you carry as much damn ammo as you may need, and then add 100 rounds.) That is all well and good until you realize that you must expend three times the ammunition to ensure a stop. Also, now with the A2 series, and all the optics and accesories that are being attached to the M4s (making them look like the rifle version of a Swiss Army knife), the savings in weapon weight is gone. So where, pray tell, is the economy of this weapon? (Probably in the kick-backs and post-retirement jobs to Pentagon brass.)
The M-14 and the T-48 FAL should be brought into service to replace this mouse-gun we've been issuing for 40 years. The 16 series has outlived its utility, and has proven, time and time again, that it is NOT up to the task it was assigned.
The Dept of Army and Corps of Naval Infantry are issuing dedicated marksmans rifles now (heavy barreled flat-top M16s with NO sights, just optics). Why do this when they could pull out and dust off some of the several hundred thousand M14s and kit them up like the Sarge did? I know that some units have done so, most notably 2ID, (HOOAH!) But the brass seem to want to stick with the lame duck they have been pushing into the hands of the troops for years.
They could also do the same with the T48 FALs sitting around gathering dust at Quantico. Both such rifles could easily be outfitted with optics, IN ADDITION TO the excellent iron sights on the rifles. They would also extend the reach of the designated marksmen. These guys are supposed to be able to reliably hit a target out to 600m with a -16.
Yes it is possible, but does it actually DO anything? I'd rather have the ability to reliably engage a target out to 800+m with a 7.62x51 and KNOW that the target will not be getting back up.
Lets put the 5.56 back where it belongs....out in the prairie dog towns, it works well on those little insurgents!

[stuart teater]

There is no substitute for the man-stopping power of he M14...a favorite weapon of many marines I know, who served in vietnam.

[John Murphy]

I believe this is negative propaganda re: OIF role.
Reading between the lines, you can see a picture of desperation and fear offered as the American Soldier's companion when being sent into combat.
In essence, this would suggest "Get your own personal weapon when sent to war since the United States government doesn't have any concern for you when it sends you into harms way.
Do you know the logistics involved in redesigning, acquiring vendors, and getting possession of all the items this alleged Soldier needed to rebuild an M-14 in the field; in order to survive in Iraq?
As far as all the rangefinder gadgets, BDC, Mildot tables, Test data for at least four "Target" bullets, (which is what he's describing), on the individual weapon, do you know what that involves?
Especially for predetermined ballistic tables for a myriad of target grade ammunition? Remember, this data, although in general close, must be validated by test firing the weapon at those ranges. I know what this involves, I do it!
If he is in a combat zone, on a mission, I guarantee you he has NO time to play at this.

There is one other very significant point that makes me think this story is all bunk. In compliance with the Geneva Convention rules, individual weapons carried by ALL American troops are allowed to fire only full metal jacket ball ammunition. That law has NOT been waived. No target or hunting style bullets allowed, period!

In addition, his descriptions of Leupolds tactical scopes, M 1 - M 3 adjustments are wrong!!!
If he was in a LRRP / Sniper unit, the proper armament would be issued.

The magazines used in the M-14 have always been dicey.

The scope mounts, since the weapon is designed to be carried in combat and used in Military competition with IRON SIGHTS only, precludes any quick and easy scope mounting options. The biggest inhibitor is the mount invite jamming on extraction.

Andrew, this is a good lesson. The author plays on your emotional support of our fighting men.

He castigates the logistical supply system for our troops; and he does it very effectively. You are about the tenth person to tell me this sad story.
The internet is a great source of information; it's up to you to VET everything you see.

[c. h. mccarroll]

the m14 was (and is) the best rifle that was ever made and used. I never even saw the m16 while I was vietnam (THANK GOD!!) it's always been said that the army got all the new stuff and the marine corps got what was left over. this was a case where it couldn't have worked out better! SEMPER FI!

[Gene Hutchins]

I was in the "old army" (1967 to 1971), and had an M-14 for most of time. I didnot
get the M-16 till late 1970 in Viet Nam. The M-14 is the best of the two without hesitation or qualification.

You have the best weapon.

[Reuben Bautista]

I was issued the m14 in basic. I could never get it to jam. In Vietnam I was issued an m16. The very first one. It was a of crap. Many of our soldiers died as the result of it. I later heard that it came with something called a bolt assist. Hell knows what that is? I bought an m14a1 in I984 and I am very happy to own it. I came out on the history channel. The Tail of gun has me cleaning my m16ar2/15?? It showed that there were indeed problems with the m16. To bad it took so long and so many lives. I loved your story and I also had problems with the scope mounts.
Reuben Bautista "sgt.bautista@sbcglobal.net

[Bob Will]

I go back even further. I was originally issued and qualified expert on an M-1. It is a bit hefty but utterly reliable and accuracy to 600m. (I have two of them in my collection and they still shoor great.)

Later I was issued an M-14. It is really an M-1 with an M-1 carbine gas system and introduced the notoriously unreliable magazine caused, no doubt, by being furnished by the lowest bidder. While full auto was a fantasy of some general, it was totally uncontrollable in full auto.

Of all the production battle rifles available today, you have the best.

Thanks for serving and keeping us old timers informed!

[Anon]

Reuben,
You "Came out" on the history channel? I don't know if that is an appropriate post here. But thanks for sharing!

Great write up on the M14. I've worked with both systems (M14 - M16/4) and agree that you can't beat the reach and stopping power of the 7.62x51.

Good luck, and remember not to draw fire, because it annoys the ones around you. Cheers!

[Mike E.]

It's embarassing for the US that you should have to drop into a combat zone without ammo. I would've sent you some or donate to a cause to do this if I knew.

Did your M14 see any action?

[cuocco]

RA 67-70
Qualified Expert with M-14 and m-16.
M-14 by far, best rifle ever.
M-16, my first impression was it was made by Mattel!.
Piece of junk. Sure , you can carry more bang for the buck with the m-16 and I'll take less ammo with sure fire stopping power.

[Jim K]

I qualified #219 in '59 with the M1 in boot. Almost 4 years later in Oct '62 we were "extended for the duration" which lasted about two weeks thanks to Castro and the Russians. I was sent to the range at MCAS El Toro to re-qualify and given an M-14. I was junk. Gas cylinder lock screw kept working loose and the ballistics were therefore constantly changing. I didn't much care at the time because I was getting a "Early Out" for Christmas (two weeks early) But because of that gas cylinder lock screw I fired a 179 and didn't even qualify. If I had been really concerned I might have complained more. I had to hunt someone up to tighten the thing when it got to the point of not ejecting as it should. It was junk. I could have at least qualified with an old M1. I even remember my combat dope from '59. 13 clicks elevation and 4 clicks left windage....

[Leon Ceniceros]

Great story. I am gratified to see that "NCO'S" are still the mind and guts of the Army. When I was promoted to buck sgt and didn't know the answer or how some thing was done, I "bull-dogged" the problem until it was solved. I still use that philosophy in life. It has been hard at times to live by this philosophy when most of the people around you would not make the effort. But as an NCO, you have people depending on you. Wish I could send you some jerky or beer nuts or something. Even though it cost you an arm and a leg to get the M-14 fixed up...you will look back later on in life and this will be the best money that you ever spent on anything. Take care. Regards and respect to you.

[Rod Shaughnessy]

What have they done to the M-14s to make the selector switch not function?

BTW I wish I had one right now. It's a great weapon.

[Gswaney]

This story is BS. I also cannot figure out why he would even need a weapon.

All he needs is a credit card and the internet.

Seems he had a hell of alot of free time to shop online and have stuff shipped half way around the world.

I think this person is a liar and wannabe.

[Gswaney]

This story is BS. I also cannot figure out why he would even need a weapon.

All he needs is a credit card and the internet.

Seems he had a hell of alot of free time to shop online and have stuff shipped half way around the world.

I think this person is a liar and wannabe.

[SAinsworth]

When your trading shots with a 7.62mm, you should have a 7.62mm or larger to return with. As stated before your better off with the M-14 than with a M-16. Stay safe.
Oh yea, Gswaney maybe you can't read, but one of the first comments on this article states remembering him being in country with the rifle. Next time keep your comments to your self or read the comments first.

[Lou]

Best rifle in close combat :AK47

Best stand off rifle: M-14 iron sights and training. Unless you don't have to carry the weapon for any lenght of time the scope is added weight and distorts balance. Up close out of ammo. The rifle makes a great bayonet platform and an excellent club. The stock will not shatter no matter how many heads you break,(unlike the M-16/4).

Be Safe little brother.

101st ABN Vietnam
103 ING Bn Iraq

[Ruben Mendoza]

u.s.m.c. my m-1 from ww2 didn`t fire right, i say bullshit to anyone that don`t back me up, had my k-bar and i would never use my own money or time because of some assholds, that don`t give a shit about me or my men, i say what`s in it for us, gung-ho is the cry, not this bullshit horaaa, where you people come up with that, Gung-HO is the Word that makes action, i would come home if my family had to buy my fighting tools, and don`t get in front of me! You people belive too much bullshit ( 0331) so the spelling is off but i`am here ,i don`t want to here it , it`s not my thing anymore............... Happy being myself doing it my way, like i said, i don`t want to here it.......................

[Mark]

Too Sweet!

My perspective: USN '76-'82

Ship's Security forces used only M-14's for years (with 1911A1'a and Remington 870's)
I liked it so much, when I got out I bought a "FedOrd" M-14SA for my hunting rifle.
When I first saw them after I reported aboard my first ship, I thought "Great, Army hand-me-downs." I soon realized the Army's loss was our gain! Fun to shoot at sea or on the range, a feeling of confidence when on watch in foreign ports.

[Brian Dukes]

Ah the memories - Good read. All you guys sharp shooting this story need to go back to your Sony play stations. My soldiers and I lived the same story - from broken weapons at Ft Bliss, to ordering Basic Issue Items (that weren’t issued) over the internet for our M-14s in Iraq. This is the OIF story, soldiers making the best of ridiculous circumstances.

Scout Platoon Leader, OIF III

[Rafael Garcia]

Hey Sarge, at my last duty station at Ft. Lewis, Washingtion in 1969, I was the training NCO at HQ. I love the M14. I've been in search of one but haven't had much luck. Put it to the best use possible, namely "Give em' hell wherever it is you're at now and doing battle against those who deserve nothing better. Take care Sarge.

[M. Dupre]

Great work, Sergeant! I love the M-14. It's my "ATT" piece--"Reach out and touch someone." When I was a young enlisted man, one of the variations I used was the M-14E2, set up for the squad automatic rifleman. Mine had the auto-fire selector switch, a slip-on muzzle compensator to reduce barrel climb, a front fold-down handgrip, lace-on Monte Carlo cheek pad, bipods, and 30-round magazines.

I got lucky. My piece was a tack driver! Several other soldiers wanted to try to take my job, just so they could carry the E-Deuce. No way!

Wish I had it now...

Best of luck, and come home soon,

Marcy Dupre
LTC, IN
US Army, Retired

[Tom Pearson]

Hmmm! This story sounds a bit stretched to me. What did the soldier do for a weapon while he was "building" his M14? Walk around unarmed? The ammo question is also troublesome as why would there be target grade ammo available in a combat zone? Also had to be some severe time lags between requesting stuff from stateside and having the military mail deliver it. Something just doesn't add up. I love both the M1 which I used on active duty (International Harvester)(also had a Spfld M1NM for the post rifle team in 1961) and in the reserve a TRW M14 and a TRW M14NM (rifle team). I do give this SGT a bit of slack as I have seen some badly abused weapons reissued without going to ordnance.

SGT US Army/USAR Ret.

[usafcatm]

a disagrace that the army supply system and unit let you down. in the air force, we would have fixed that weapon before you deployed and you would have been zeroed in the usa and even if given an issued weapon you cxould have mechanically zeroed your weapon and put your sight adj on it and been in the ball park. you need to go to the usaf where you will be treated better.

[SFC Boadway]

I used an M-14 while with the OLD GUARD in DC-- was used for ceremonies mostly, but I found that is was VERY effective at the range. Much easier weapon to hit the target with-- not to mention the round size...you will stop any oncoming enemy!

[The Chief]

Think I commented about this a week ago about the M-14. Boys, you need to look at history and the development of weapons and why they were developed before spouting off about how something is a piece of crap! Each and every weapon developed had a reason behind it. You want to reach out and touch someone. How about using the Springfield '06. Good stable weapon with a great cartridge. Or how about the BAR (Browing Automatic Rifle). Great firepower with a great punch. Want to know how much that sucker weighed with full ammo loat pluc bipode? Look it up. You might as well bring back the ANTOS and Davy Crockett (anyone remember those?)
Weapons are developed to meet a need. Not to go too far back into ancient history, the M-14 was developed to bring an automatic weapon to the averagr rifleman. However, once fielded, the average infantryman could not accurately control the M-14 in automatic mode. The thing bucked and sprayed all over the place. Think about it, what is the purpose of an automatic weapon. Spray and pray or accurate suppression fire? Watch the videos of combat from Vietnam and the current conflicts. More often than naught, you will observe the weapon being fired over a barrier, with the weapon pointed up. Also, at what range are the enemy being engaged at? Is this open long range, or urban fighting? Carrying a heavy weapon in the swamps, rice paddies and jungles is not fun. The 16 was developed to reduce the weight carried by the average grunt. Plus firefights were w/in 100 meters. You did not need to reach out. You needed to get firepower out to your immediate front. Taking time to zero in and take careful aim was not a luxury.
When commenting on the history of the M-16, yes, it was prone to jam, misfire, etc., when first introduced. However, this is not the case now. Yes it will still jam, but just about any weapon will. Yes, yes, yes, the AK will probably not, but that is because it is manufactured with low tolerances, which result is less accuracy. What do you want? you can't have both.
Having fired both, in all modes, will take the M-16 for urban warefare and almost all other uses. However, the M-14 is a great sniper rifle, but not many rifelmen are snipers. There is no weapon that is for all uses. That is why artillery is great for long rnage, mortars for in fighting, Heavy MGs for long distance, etc. Get the point?

[Mike]

Man, does this hit home. I got to spend the day with the Marines at Norfolk Naval Base back in 2002. I repaired a couple of phones and gave the Marines at the armory Free long distance for life on there business phones. Anyways, I was getting out on disability in less than a month so I didn't care, besides I was helping out my fellow brothers. They asked me how they could thank me, I said " Give me a tour of the armory ". I'm from a small town in Iowa, so I never got to see all the hand held firepower the military had to offer except on the History Channel. They were more than happy to accommodate. I was in heaven !!! The way they store these weapons was very impressive, I've never seen anything like it. There kept in top working order. As the tour was about to end, there Division Officer came in and asked who I was. They told him all I did and he asked me if I'd like to come train with the marines on Saturday. My jaw dropped and my eyes bugged out and the Officer said " I'll take that as a Yes ". I actually couldn't say anything ??? Me, a Phone Tech couldn't say anything...Funny. I went to the armory on Saturday and scored very high on all the weapons except the M14. I scored a Perfect score. I didn't miss one target and hit all the targets bulls eyes. I had to get me one. I have been searching high and low for one of these but to no evail. I will never forget that day as long as I live. Growing up poor in a farm house in the middle of nowhere, Iowa. I made every shot count when you were hunting for food. Good Job Sarge ! I Think you used ingenuity when most people would have duct taped a make shift site on there and called it good enough. Take Care and God Bless, Hope you make it home safe and enjoy the rest of your life in peace !

[Dean Custis]

Sgt! I want you on my side!
Chief Custis, USN(ret)

[John Moore]

Great story about the M-14.

My son has an M-14 and I have a H & K 91. we have 7 mags each and when we go to the range and start to set up every one want to know what we are shooting, as they have the civilian version of the M-16 and 7.62 X 39. we were shooting with iron sights until we went with the red dot scopes. I don't shoot his M-14 much as I remenber the kick of the old M-1 in the middle 50's. I stay with my H&K-91 a very good rifle in my book. The M-14 is a very good rifle and I have read stories about snipers that used it in Vietnam and the Brits who use the same round in Iraq. It must be a very good weapon.

[Bill Volz, Pa.]

The M-14 was one of the greatest military rifles ever developed (M-1 was great also).

Used it in the Corps, use the same cartridge (.308 Win) to this day for ALL my hunting.

Accurate and dependable!

Stay safe and shoot straight!
Get home soon!

[Bill Volz, Pa.]

The M-14 was one of the greatest military rifles ever developed (M-1 was great also).

Used it in the Corps, use the same cartridge (.308 Win) to this day for ALL my hunting.

Accurate and dependable!

Stay safe and shoot straight!
Get home soon!

[Richard]

Sergeants are born not made!!!Had quite a few "McGivers" like him in my day...and needed them and watched over them because of their "skills"

[Larry Glick]

I'm with you on the M-14....I have my own since 1989....during my twenty + years in the USAF I found the M-16 very good weapon, in good hands it ia more than capable of the 10x shooting. The one thing I see here is the area of deployment...open range, hand me the M-14, it can place shots on target (18inch) at 600 yards all day with the iron sights! Close quaters urban/city shooting at 100 meters or less....the 16 has it beat. Being a chevy fan and American Muscle rules the streets....there is no substitute for cubes, 308s will keep aggressors down! I see what the Chief was talking bout....both weapons have a place and both are deadly when applied to target correctly. Job well done Sarge!

[Bob]

I smell a B.S. story, but hey it's the Army not the Marines so who knows.

[Rick Milloy]

I remember we used to refurbish M-14s, "glass" them in and put a leupold site on them (calling them a M-21 sniper rifle) and they took a better beating then the (floating barrel) m-24 sniper rifle. We had our own little sniper range on Ft Devens. No BS.

[J.C.]

Ive had to Improvise in 22 years of service, Adapting was the key, Overcome the impossible. all AMERICAN ingenuity. but you should of used the com-shaw method I here the spec-ops people have some extra equipment. they have a tendancy to lose bits and pieces every so,often.

[Dave]

I am on active duty. I have been to and am going back to Iraq. This story sounds like a load of crap. For starters, weapons don't get issued out of the back of suburbans. There is more than enough ammo in Kuwait to ensure that every soldier gets his basic load, and then some. Almost all soldiers going into Iraq have to go through Kuwait first, so they ensure they keep more than enough on hand. Maybe you could have gotten a weapon with a bent front site post, but your unit armorer would have been able to fix it; and if he didn't have the parts, his direct support unit would have the part. Once again, Kuwait is a large supply depot, and they stock everything needed to get us into the fight. Bottom line on both the ammo and deadlined weapon, however, is that you would not have gone into Iraq in that situation. Your unit would not have allowed it. As for finding some M14's laying around in a supply room...M14's are not kept in supply rooms, they are kept in arms rooms because they are a sensitive item. Maybe your unit issued you one, if you were part of a sniper team or were a squad designated marksman, but in both situations, the rifle would already be set up with a mounted scope. Our M14's did originally come with wooden stocks, but we were able to get compoosite replacement stocks through regular supply chains in less than 3 weeks. Sorry bud, but I don't believe a word of your story.

[Velvetjones]

I was issued an M-14 in basic back in 1973 and carried it for a few years till the 16s came full circle.

It is a great weapon... at 500 yards I could put a mans dick in his watch pocket...

Great story, Sgt.

Simper fi

[SMOKE/N/FLOAT]

GOD BLESS THE AMERICAN WARRIOR, YOU WENT THE EXTRA MILE FOR OLD GLORY AND THE BROTHERHOOD. WANT MORE SELF ENJOYMENT, SECURE A BELGIUM BOLT ACTION 308 M1930. FIXITANDCLICLIT TO YOUR OWN SPECS AND ORDER THE WINCHESTER SUPREME ELITE 150GR XP3 ROUND.
P.S. A MAXI-PAD AND DUCK TAPE
COMES IN HANDY AT THE LOCAL RANGE.

[MSG SHORE Ret. Army]

That was my weapon during my tour in Nam and BCT.... Lot heavier than a M-16 but it sure was dependable......

[T Rottman]

Now that he has a M-14, does he preferr it over the (sic) M-16? Talking to a lot of my buddies from Nam, they would give you a plug nickle for a M-16, they would have preferred the M-14

[Bob Edwards, Tsgt, USAF (Ret)]

Sgt; if all else fails, make it work anyway. One does what one has to do. Qual'ed on the M-14 in 70, went to Nam with the 16. Both are good weapons in the hands of a dead I dick. Have to agree, the 14 is a distance killer, 16 up close and personal. Went to Desert Storm with the M4, couldn't keep it clean. Found an AK-47, kept it. By far the best infantry weapon ever made. You can drop it in mud and it will still fire, sand did'nt slow it down. Like every ones has said. Keep it clean and it will keep you alive. Great work Sgt. Thank you for your service and remember to duck. Never hurts to have a plan. God Bless and keep you safe, and my you and all of them come home soon.

[Merriweather Jones, USA Retired]

I throught by now the military services woul have solved these type problems. I had to deal with them big time in Vietnam. it's about time someone held high level brass responsible for this type screw up.
Keep safe. And hurry home.

[Merriweather Jones, USA Retired]

I throught by now the military services would have solved these type problems. I had to deal with them big time in Vietnam. it's about time someone held high level brass responsible for this type screw up.
Keep safe. And hurry home.

[ColSteve]

Great that you saved the USA's best weapon! In Basic trained on M1, then again to M14. Laater when the M16 hit, I was in agony. M-16 - what a bunch of #@&@! Always missed my M14. I knew the original Armalite folks, but couldn't see the benefit of the M16. Sure miss my 1911 .45 Congratulations.

[BigBen]

I was in the Corp from 69 to 74. Booted with M14 and camkpaigned with the 16. Me and my M14, was one of the best things for me in the Corps. The piece is as sweet as a dancing girl when doing the manual of arms, it just fields good in your arms and when it hits your shoulders. In a fire fight, it is the heavyweight champion, as hard hitting as a angry man. The accuracy, even on a basic strip down issue from the armory, is far better than a gussied up M16. To make a long story short, Mister you've got a real man's weapon to stroll around with. Be safe, come back, dream good.

[Taylor Young]

Young Sergeant, take it from someone who had to live with the Garand, it is accurate but heavy. I got to use the M-14 while building an airfield in Thailand, adding a bit of foresight and planning to the fiasco that Nam became; nearly two pounds lighter was appreciated. Whoever thought up that full auto switch had his head firmly up his ass. A two round burst would have been worthwhile; two shots from the Garand when the sear failed were about two inches apart at 100 yards, been there, did that, regretted that I had to then cock again. The M-14 on full auto made the Grease Gun seem like a well controlled weapon; sidewise in short bursts was good but not very accurate. I missed out on the M-16, no regrets, but it seems the straight back recoil would make 3-4 round bursts deadly, especially if the first one is aimed not pointed.
Not sure if the equipment is getting to the troops, but there are uppers for the AR-15 that have some deadly characteristics, the Beowulf (.50) will stop an engine. There are uppers that shoot 6.5 mm and the AK .30, both on my short list for acquisition.
If the troops are having the trouble this soldier had getting armed, it must be true that Haliburton and George's oil cronies are the profiteers of this war. It explains why I find soldiers buying AR-15s every time I stop by Olympic Arms.
Best advice, young Sergeant, is for you to carry the heaviest rounds you can consistently acquire; the .223 maims and wings, .308 gets in there and does some damage, heavier the better. Keep your wits about you, the Army needs more of that and less BS from its fearless leaders who want someone else be a target for them.

[USMA Drill Team]

How come, of all you commentators, only Dave the active duty guy smells BS here. What chain of command in your Army lets soldiers choose their weapons of preference. That is why we have a professional Army, not a bunch of ragtag mercenaries without manuals or standards. If the Army wanted you to have an obsolete M14 we would have issued one.

[Chip Jackson]

Great story. Way to overcome and adapt, young man.

My experience with the M-14 was in the Navy back in the early eighties. I was on an aircraft carrier that was outfitting its SRF (Ship's Reactionary Force) to assist the fleet Marines. At Subic we all went to the firing range to qualify with the 870, M1911A1, M-16 and, because the Navy Department knows a good weapon when it has one, the M-14.

It should be noted that "qualify" is a bit of a misnomer. It was more of a "Small Arms and You" symposium but we were firing live, and for a bunch of 19 year old Rambo wannabes it was worth it. At any rate, the Gunny had about 15 or 20 of us gathered around when we got to the M-14. He explained that there was a selector switch for the M-14 but that only the range officer had the ability to switch it to full auto. He then asked who wanted to be the first to fire it in that manner. 20 hands go up. He oints to me, the skinniest kid in the group by far (119 pounds with sand in my pockets) and asked me to stand up. He then inserted a full thirty round magazine, moved the function over to full auto and said "point the weapon downrange and fire at will."

It was at this point that I firmly I believed that I was the best shot ever born and I'd prove to this crusty old Gunny that I wasn't some novice. How hard could it be to just lay on the trigger briefly, put five or ten rounds into a target and walk away? I quickly found out.

In what had to be the FASTEST two seconds I've ever experienced in my life, there was a pile of brass at me feet, the reciever was slammed open, the barell was straight up in that air and my eyes were as big as saucers.
The Gunny turned around to the rest of the assembled mass and said "Gentlemen, THAT is why we have the selector switch."

Stay safe.

[Jeff Williams]

Sgt.
You have revived a time honored military tradition.
Inovation and initiative.
On the riverboats in Vietmnam
we were issued two early version m16s' as soon as possible I trsded them for m-14s' and never regretted it. I own two that were custom built ny me from usgi parts and forged receivers.They are the best individual carry weapon in the U.S. inventory.
And the fellow who smells bs is full of it. We used anything we could find rather than the swell mattel.

[Gary Fink, HM2/SpecWar Doc]

Acquisition... Com Shaw... Trade up... part out... all relative terms and this story reeks of relativity.

I can't say that it is all BS because I'm not standing in anyone's shoes right now nor have I seen combat in Iraq but I can say this:

I've had opportunity to fire both the M-14 and the Mattel 16 and both have their merits. In close quarter combat where firepower effectiveness is a factor, I'd put the M-16 over that long gun any day of the week (unless you want to put that AK in my hands cause THAT baby is my present TO weapon as a civilian... and I can put your eye out at 300 meters with it).

The M-14 is a long gun for long shots... put a man into the urban theatre with that thing and it is not much more than a doorstop unless you are knocking on doors from a distance. I don't like the M-16... it's a varmint rifle with an attitude, that's about all. I've patched people up who've taken hits from it and couldn't find that bullet because it travelled up the leg and stopped into the hip or bounced off a shoulder bone and ran up into the neck... annoying little bastard is what that 5.56 is.

Getting parts has never been a problem in the military in my 16 years of Navy / SpecWar / Marine experiences.

I've tied the Cherry Point range record with the M-16 (damned accurate in the 'right hands') and never failed to fire expert even with the .45 (had to shoot at another target to hit mine in one qualification series... it was THAT worn out).

Would I want an M-14? Damn straight but not in the concrete jungle... give me the AK anyday.

[gerald]

Great article. This is the kind of data that I am constantly looking for. Thank you.

[Playford]

Very interesting story, I thorougly enjoyed reading it. Sorry to hear your problems with the supplies, hope things run smoothly from now on!

[Robbie]

I loved my M14, good range and knock down and if you ran out of ammo you could brake down M60 belt ammo or use ammo from those only droped once AK's. M16 is a good brush weapon, close combat but most of the time it takes 3 to 5 rounds to bring the bad guy down.Aim a little high and you will get him before he gets close enought to get you. Watch your six and good hunting.

[James Martin]

Well done Sarge! I was in the Navy under LBJ. If i would have given up my M-14 in Nam. I would be DEAD !!!

[Sgt Ed]

I got a M14 after my M4 failed to stop a insurgent. I also tricked mine out. I went with the issue EOtec, recoil buffer, vortec, a homemade stock that was just like the current Vltor stock, and I added the selector switch. With a vertical grip front and rear, the buffer and a vortec full auto was as easy to use as a M16A1. I had no problems with function or stopping targets. Also having the stock I had (M4 butt etc)and not mounting a big scope the snipers did not single me out as a high value target.
I just bought a M1a SOCOMII this week and have a Sage stock on the way for it.

I love the M1 family of rifles.

Heres to the best weapon the US ever made! Hoooah!

[Noah "GRAMBO"Graeme]

It's a shame to see our Gov't leaders priorities. I just downloaded about 20 pics off yahoo of Isreali fighters armed with M-16's, M-14's, M-4's and our old woodland camoflauge that we have supplied them to fight. Our own soldiers go without while we support other countries. We need to consentrate on our soldiers first. Our country can't be as strong without a strong military.

HOOYAA SAR.

GRAMBO

[Gail]

You are what every soldier/marine is made of and thank goodness. How ingenious. My son will be deploying to Iraq on July 4th. I hope his sargeants are as smart as you and that the equipment they are issued is in better shape.

Thank you SGT for your service and caring.

[SGT_KINSELLA]

I too, smell a little BS. I have to say, while I was in Iraq, I saw plenty of people walking around post with "exotic" weapons. I saw a guy with a Thompson machinegun once, and a guy carrying nothing but at M79. Also every variation of AK known to man.

HOWEVER! These guys never left the wire. These were not their primary weapons, they just looked cool, so they carried them. Who knows where they got them.

If this guy was working with the ING, it is possible he acquired an M14 - however it was "issued" to him, and it's unlikely he didn't have a servicable M16 and impossible he didn't have any rounds for it.

[SGT_KINSELLA]

correction:

I meant to say NOT issued to him.

[RICO]

GOD DAMN YOU GOT THE CLOSEST THING TO A PET THE DEPLOYED GET TO HAVE

[Bob]

Make certain you keep the M-14 well cleaned and oiled. I was issued an M-14 in 1964. I carried with me to Viet Nam in 1965. In Nam I was reassigned to another company where I was issued another M-14, (no one knew I still had the one I brought with me) so I wrapped up the original one in a blanket and put it away until I was ready to return to the states. Unfortunately, the first M-14 was covered with rust. To embarrased to turn it back in, and to honest to send it home in my hold baggage (no one checked the hold baggage in those days) I just left it under my bunk. It's been over 40 years and I still feel badly about that wonderful rifle.

[MacD]

This is the supidest article ever... JUST USE THE 7.62!!! What is all this crap talk about grain weight of ammo and scopes... Haven't even used the rifle before, but he's determined to be a super duper sniper guy, instead of... say... a dude with an m14 instead of an m16. Homo.

[Paul Kicklighter USN Retired]

Stay safe sarge and keep up the outstanding work. I would take a M-14 over a M-16 (made by Mattel)any day. So folks carry non-issue weapons? As long as they work for them, more power to them.

[jaqueline]

hi!! my name is jaqueline excuse me do you know Sgt hector Martinez is Marine Corp ?? thank you
help me please!!!!
jaqueline
peru-chiclayo

[Troy Glover]

The fact of the matter is .. that the M-14 is still in the U.S. Arsenal , and is issued to a select few ! whoever gets them , gets them ... don't get all butthurt .

Like I said in an earlier post .. the FN SCAR weapons system is heading to the Spec Ops community soon .. one in 5.56 , and one in 7.62 .. they found out what the shooters on the ground would want , and put it all together ! the one in 7.62x51, they have it down to a science when fired on Fullauto .. there it is.. I put: x51 on the end of 7.62 .. dont get all butthurt .

The 5.56 has its tactical advantages over the 7.62x51 .. just not in the long range heavy shooting .

For the Majority here on this thread we are all a Rifleman .. expressing our thoughts back to another Rifleman ... there is a few coming around here with their pantys all in wad .

Please don't rock the boat ... were having a good time ! go some where else if your unhappy .

I would imagine the M-14 will be around for awile , and yes .. in U.S. Military service .

[albert chapman]

I wish that I had a M-14 when
I was in the army. I heard that they were a better weapon than the M-16.

[Jared McLaughlin]

I deployed during OIF III, also. For those of you who doubt his story, the uniform and patch are correct. His timeline indicates he was pulled late, because the rest of that brigade would have been in Fort Polk transitioning to Kuwait when he got to Fort Bliss. Most of the gear would have been gone, too.

It more than likely wasn't a factor of poor supply, just the realities of life. You get there late, you get what's left. Everyone who went with the main body not only had brand new weapons, but they were gone over real well by a bunch of civilian specialists.

Replacements did travel from Kuwait to Iraq without ammo quite often. The government of Kuwait has funny rules about where and when they'll allow us to be armed. Trust me, the chopper he flew on wasn't unarmed.

There was plenty of mags, parts and ammo in country as I believe he mentioned in a follow up. My guess is, that being a replacement and based on his uniform and ability to acquire such gear that he was a support/admin sort. No hard feelings but that's the truth. The weapon mix we carried on patrol was tightly controlled by the commander. There's no choose your own weapon going on.

Mind you we all acquired our own personal stashes of things like AK's or stens in case they'd come in handy. We didn't carry them often, though. Only qualified marksmen carried m14's. There were only so many of the rifles, and only so many guys allowed to qualify with them. There was an issue with the wrong scope mount being issued, but if you're carrying the thing on patrol who wants a scope?

Now that I'm thinking about it, I got a bone to pick. There's nothing wrong with the M-16 family. I carried an M4 the whole time. The round is a little anemic, but it kills. The sights are good, and if you keep it clean it always works. Keeping it clean doesn't mean stripping it down constantly. I mean, keeping lube in the right places, keeping it out of the wrong places and knocking the sand off with a brush every so often.

Being a soldier is a proffession. You don't get to pick your tools, but you make them work. M-16 doesn't shoot far enough? Get closer. One round doesn't drop 'em? Shoot 'em again. In the end it's still a battle of the will, not the body.

Now that I think about it, I think I recognize that soldier.

[Troy Glover - USMC 1983-1989]

Well .. I turned 42 today .. owned My very first AR-15 (SP1)model , when I was 16 years old ... 27 years down the road ..over 10,000 live rounds of 5.56 fired through various AR-15/M-16/M-4s , and I have never had a Jam ! guess Im just lucky that way .

The AR-15/M-16/M-4s still has to be one of My favorites ... but I like all Military Rifles .

[Old Donn U.S. Army Vietnam 69-70]

Was the M-14 a better rifle than the M-16? Of course it was. But before you guys get too misty-eyed, remember what it was like to hump that bad boy in the tropical heat? Not just the weight of the piece and the ammo, but the front sight getting hung up on anything you got close to.

[John Driskill]

It says a lot when a fighting member of our armed forces has to deck himself out of his own pocket. In the long haul the M14 will outlast the crappy M16. At least the U.S. Army tested the M14 before placing it in service unlike the M16 which was backdoored in. Ask some U.S. Army vets about having to take cleaning rods to get stuck shells out in battle which happened in Vietnam. The M14 is not a picky weapon like the M16 in the operating department as far as cleaning. A speck of dirt or sand will cause the M16 to fail. Good choice Sgt.!

[Carlos Rosso]

Just to say this article is great in construction and details - that I admire your courage and that I support you and our troops! Give them what they deserve soon and be back safe.
Truly,
Carlos Rosso, editor
CONTRAPUNTOS Radio & TV
San Juan, Puerto Rico

[H2O MAN]

I have a pair of MK14 SEI builds. 18.0" barrels - one is standard profile and chrome lined, the other is a Crazy Horse medium heavy.
Awesome reliable, accurate weapons. My favorite configuration: http://www.athenswater.com/images/MK14-SEI-RRM.jpg
Eric, thank you for your service and your comments.
Stay safe.

[Bob Bell]

I was in Danag in '67, though in the air force. I was stationed with guys in the 3rd marine air wing on the north end of the base. That year they issues them M16 in place of the M14. They were bad news. When you shoot an m16 at anyone it's like... Yoo Hoo I'm shooring at you. With teh M14 it's... Well you know "BLAM" with no BS attached. The guys in the 3rd MAD always left us their M3 machine guns and M14 when we had an attack as they went for teh M60's (our weapons were locked up down at camp). Stay strong and good luck with the "Champ"...

[Viet Nam Vet Dale]

I was at Danang in 65-66, when the Marine Corp brought out the M-16. Their Demo was to shoot a water buffalo in the hind quarter and kill it. Well it did because it bled to death the story we got was that the M-16 was a weapon used to quickly diable an enemy. Hit any bonew and it would due to it's speed of round, faster than the M-14 cripple an enemy and put him out of action quicker. Phooey. I kept my M-14 for the one and a half years I was there it is a fantastic weapon very accurate up to 500yards on the range when I qualified Expert in the Marine Corp in 1964. Very good job restoring the weapon you have the best of the bunch. Semper Fi from an old Jarhead.

[Heidi Feliciano]

As an army wife, I am glad that you were able to find a weapon to protect yourself. On the other hand, I can't believe that army did not give one in proper order to begin with. You should send your story to Congress, let them know "how" prepare we are!

[Ed Gage]

Good job improvising. I plan to buy a M1A and need advice on the best items to purchase with it. You have helped me out some. Shame on the US Army for putting you in that position. I am a reservist myself (Air Force, but I have spent some time active duty Army). I wish I had your contact information to get some advice from you on my purchase of the M1A.

Regards,

Ed in Texas

[Paul Dalton]

I'm at work now and can't say I read all the above Posts, don't know if anyone told you, but in boot camp we use to line up a platoon of 80 Marines, prone, full auto, tracer rounds, night time, and let her rip!!! I have never forgot that display of firepower!! I still love me M-14, Semper Fi

[steve bell]

I am a veteran of Desert Storm and OIF III, and I am here to tell you that the U.S.
Govt. should be ashamed at how they treat their greatest asset: the military. How can a guy go from the States to the FOB in Iraq with a jacked up weapon and no ammo? This is not an isolated event either. How can the greatest country on earth equip its armed forces so poorly?

[SGT Kinsella]

A lot of the comments revolve around how terrible it is that the Army sent a Soldier into combat with messed up weapon. I think the orginal poster commented that this was not the intention of his post.

Some food for thought:

In the current combat conditions in Iraq, it's unlikely that you are going to have engage a target at anything further out than 50 meters. (That's for the average rifleman.) Even that is rare, considering the tactics that are being used by the enemy. Therefore, if your weapon isn't properly zeroed (assuming that the mechanical zero is totally f-ed up - which means the weapon is flatlined) you're still probably going to hit just fine.

One more step. Most of the fighting happens even closer than 50 meters, where the front sight post doesn't come into play at all.

Also, keep in mind that many Soldiers in Iraq never actually fire their weapons, and never get a chance. If you're not outside the wire, your weapon is for "force protection" only, and you're probably only carrying 30 rounds with you.

When my Infantry company flew into Iraq - we were only carrying 30 rounds each - and no SAW ammo. When we landed, we had more ammo than we could carry for every weapon system. A previous poster mentioned that there are strange rules in Kuwait about who is carrying ammo, and how much.

[Dennis Rydgren]

I am missing something hear. I love your ingenuity but in Nam alot of guys in our recon platoon carried AK-47's. Every swinging Richard on the other side in Iraq is carrying an AK why not you and save yourself all that hassel. My line unit with the 1st Cav didn't allow AK's or M-14's because the crack of a 7.62 meant Charlie was in with our troops. And yes the M-16 was a piece of s__it - I carried 3 different ones in Nam and every one of them jammed but on the upside it allowed me to carry 28 magazines and there was no way in hell I could of humped an M-14 and 28 magazines of 7.62 for that weapon. Good luck and all the best.

[Chip Campbell]

It's hard to believe that we (the U S) cannot supply our troops with the equipment needed. Thanks a bunch for your persistence and service to this country.

Semper Fi
USMC 68-72 Nam vet
Give'm hell

[spaghetti mre]

Equipment shortages, etc.
When I was mobilized for desert shield I heard the same BS. "You'll get the proper equipment/clothing when we get there"
Just like "your check is in the mail" I sadly see nothing has changed. Thank God for internet shopping!

[spaghetti mre]

Authenticity of story???
experience in theater and elsewhere in 24 yrs of service in 3 branches, (retired in 96)and especially in a place where chaos and anarchy are the rule of the day like Iraq is, I would not be so sure that everything is always 'by the book' or according to some
SOP. I learned from some salty folks that sometimes things are not always as advertised, you can get away with a lot, and you have to improvise and look out for your small circle of brothers any way you can. I saw a lot of things done in the reserve and Guard like transporting individual weapons in some one's POV for the sake of expedience.
For example we slept in and wore the same chemical suit for our entire deployment, despite what the book says about it's decreased affectivness. We had tires that were thirty years old on most of our trucks. What Rummy said about going to war with what you have is sadly too true.
On another note,At one time,it also took me several weeks to get the armorer to adjust the trigger pull on my M-16A2. Once he did I was happy as a clam, but before that it was hard getting those good marksmanship scores at the ranges
I qualified with the M-14 in the Navy in 71, I think when it all comes to humping stuff around like a pack mule, I prefer lighter, I was never in an urban combat patrol situation but I can imagine they'd want something shorter and lighter, but if at a check point zeroing in on a careening toyota coming my way with a beligerant towel head behind the wheel shouting god is great, no question I'd like one of us to have some serious fire power, but I guess that's what the M-60 is for.

[L. Mike]

Glad you got it figured out! Think your Dad called SEI to relay your story, and brag on his buddy, who helped in your hangun training? Might be another. Just in case you need something like this again, call us direct. We ship to the sandbox all the time, either from family members in the states or direct to your APO. Thanks again for serving, hurry home!

L. Mike
Smith Enterprise

[anonymous in CA]

What a stunning story. I just got done with watching Top 10 Rifles on the Military Channel and the M14 was #10 and the M16 was #2! This story makes me think the M16 doesnt even belong in the top 20 mix! I never really thought about the M16 being bad in this day in age- after reading this and the comments there is no way we can have this jamming POS anymore! One of my friends is serving in the Army in Iraq. He has an M4 and it has probably jammed on him at least a couple times during his tour- Once he gets back I'll tell him this story and maybe he can request a different gun!

[John Neace]

The m16 series was a peice of junk from conception...the rotating bolt, blow back action of the Ak and other foreign weapons systems was far more reliable. How many us troops died in Nam during heavy fire fights because of that peice of junk..Stoner design was flawed from inception..better the US military adopted John Brownings designs...FNFAL..FNC BAR

[Troy Glover - USMC 1983-1989]

Well .. in the war were in right now .. two main rifles that are against eachother the M-16/M-4 vs. the AK-47 , and Im pretty sure the M-16/M-4 has put more of the bad guys down ... our casualties have come more from IEDs etc .

The AK-47 is gas operated ... although I still like the FN FAL , FNC , BAR ... the FN FAL is the only rifle I have really seen Jam out of all the automatic rifles ... but that was only due to a bad lot of old ammo a friend of mine bought ... the FN FAL in My opion is to finicky of weapon .. when you have to deal with a gas regulator ... although it is a rifle that was ahead of its time ... and still is a good rifle .

The Hecklor & Koch weapons are really the only weapons in Militarys today that are Blowback designs .

The BAR was the reason why Bonnie & Clyde went down the way they did ... once the Law found out they had two BARs .. they simply armed 20 agents with BARs , and took them out .

Like I Stated before ... I have put over 10,000 live rounds through AR-15/M-16/M-4s without a problem , and over 5,000 7.62x39 , through SKS/AK47 ... with maybe one Jam ... that was probably My fault .

Regardless ... Eric Daniel stuck to his Guns on this issue , and the the M-14 is a great Rifle , and the M-14 does not deserve to be at number 10 , ( that was an insult ) on that top 10 military rifles on TV ... the M-14 is its own class of full power Battle Rifles ... in which case .. I would take the AR-10 .. Only because its more user friendly with its Magazine well , and easy selector switch ... But the HK-91/G-3 , is a nice rifle to .

As far as the M-16 & the AK-47 which fire intermediate cartridages ... the M-16 is far more user friendly ... with the AK-47 having a heavier bullet , good iside 300 meters . but the M-16 has better penatration against a hard target with its M855 round ... breaking it down .. the AK-47 ( A BLUNT STICK ) ... the M-16 ( A SURGICAL INSTRUMENT )

Just My 2 cents .

[Robert]

I have been noticing a lot of equipment that we have been sending to our troops are not up to stander.I do not blame the soilder for trading in his rifle for another.

[NCO (still going at it each day)]

I have read this story 3 times to get the facts right. And like some others Im throwing the BS flag out there. Many time-lines do not match up (The first line states OIF 3.. in Nov 04??? wrong year), many many requiments are not met in the MOB process. I am stationed (active duty) at Ft. Lewis and we train National guard, and Air force for deployment. Infact We have National Guard who work with us. I let them read this story to see if this was possible, as they have just returned from Iraq this year. There are many things wrong, with is story. I am not here to argue which weapon is better M16/M4 Vs M14. Though I have talked with many an old timer, and they say one thing, "we didnt have that gear back then". Strap a, EO tech, mars, Acog, CCO sight to your weapon, then add on a tac light, night laser, and the almighty rail system to your weapon and come talk to me. And its not "optional" gear, thats the standard. Back to the story, there is no way... No way in hell a soldier deploying will be Unqualified with his/her weapon, just not going to happen. We expend countless rounds on the range qualifing soldiers and airmen before deploying. Static qualification and SRM. You dont pass you dont leave the range PERIOD, pack a lunch could be a long day. Every soldier will be issued ammo before entering a combat zone PERIOD. Maybe not a full combat load, but they will have ammo on them. If this soldier had 5 duffle bags of gear, then he bought some extra, cant pack, or a SH_T load of pogie bait. Even with the "extra gear" its not 5 duffle bags. it also states that he found the M-14 in the supply room. Fact ALL weapons will be locked up in the ARMS room. Even weapons that get snatched off raids, or Snap TCPs. If this soldier spent $700.00 out of his own pocket it is beacuse WANTED to, not needed too. I, as a NCO, can not sit here and read this article and without becoming upset (to put it nicely). We (You, me, the tax payer) spend almost $xxx,xxx to get EACH soldier equiped, geared, and trained,...(mentally, tactically, and physicaly), for comabt.

"Im not here to be your buddy or friend. Im here to teach you how to win in combat, and thats where you going meatstick, so pay attention".

[Phil Smart]

The M14 is the best military service rifle ever made. Next best is the M1 rifle (Its father). Approximately 1,380,000 M14s were manufactured. Most were destroyed by order of Robert McNamera who ordered the M16 as its replacement. McNamera was related to the Colt family and had a financial interest in the M16. The M16 is Junk.

The M14 is still used heavily by the Military and there are not enough. "Tax you to make it, Tax you to break it".

P. Smart 2ND.LT.

[Mimi]

Great PIECE Eric!! Enjoyed it! ;-)

This story is no B.S. I worked with Eric during the first few months of OIF III.
He was from California and attached last minute to a unit from PA.