Battlefield Fashion

Submitted by Eric Daniel

Ok ok, I know this is outside the realm of Kit-Up since this particular item is still currently under development and it will be GI issue but I couldn’t just let it pass as soon as I found out that the Army was actually investing man-hours and tax dollars on developing this piece of battlefield technology.

In the event you don’t follow cutting edge technology like I do, you probably haven’t heard about the new tactical sling bag NATIC is working on.  Seems that the old OD green canvas, um…”alternate lifestyle sachel” (to be PC about it) has finally lost its usefulness in today’s digital asymetric battlespace.

Apparently soldiers have issue with the assault bag, which is a “daypack” you stuff with goodies like more magazines, demo, food, batteries, and maybe a poncho liner and poncho for in case you have to “bug out.”  In the old days, wearing an assault pack was a no-brainer, but now that most of what we’re doing is vehicle based (get in the truck, get out of the truck, get in the truck…) using an assault pack has become a pain in the ass.  For starters, you can’t wear it in the truck, and putting it on and taking it off not only takes time (which you might not have) but it could potentially expose you to enemy fire (if you hapopen to be doing a “hot” dismount.)  One option is to just leave it in the truck, but then that kind of defeats the purpose of taking it on a patrol.  Another option is to use a different bag, one that you can stow in front of you or behind you.

This is where the old Army map bag, a.k.a. the “Foxtrot Bravo”, comes in.  The FB was a pretty versitile bag.  The size of a large telephone book, it was durable, simple, it could hold quite a bit, and with the shoulder strap, you could stow it behind you, or hip throw it to swing it around and get something out.  Unfortunately however, it would seem that the FB is no longer up to snuff and the Army has chosen to set out building a better wheel.

Mind you, I’ve no issue with improving on the qualities and functionality of the FB, but where I get confused is in the justification that the Army used to develop their own unique product (i.e. reinventing the wheel.)  Hell, to be perfectly honest, why don’t we go back to issuing the Bag, Canvas, Field, M1936 (Musette Bag), which could be worn both as an assault pack, or a shoulder bag.

It is said that “they” evaluated a number of existing commercial bags but none of them met the criteria they had established for the bag.  Who did they check out?  Coach? Versace? Gucci? Louis Vuitton?  There have got to be dozens top quality tactical gear manufacturers out there, each producing dozens of different tactical bags. From metric to left-handed, from canvas to cordura, there is a bag out there to meet your needs.

Yet the Army, apparently, couldn’t find a bag it liked, so it built its own.  The Army also goes on to identify potential uses for the bag such as storing small electronic devices and laptops (who takes a laptop to a firefight? and what were you carrying your laptop in before the Army developed this bag?) or for medics, to store there supplies in, which would be laudable, if it wasn’t for the fact that there are already a couple of million medic bags already on the market.  Truly, after reading the Army press release, it seems almost as if the Army just developed the bag and it will be up to the soldiers in the field to figure out what to do with it.

Bottom line here is, great idea, but where I’m left lost and clueless is how this new and improved Army developed bag is going to be so much better than what’s already out there.

Thoughts?

Comments

There is one HUGE problem with picking a COTS item. Let's say you pick a bag designed by company XX as the new standard. Company YY takes the Gov't to court to say why their bag is better.

So, what the Gov't does is say "we like the features of XX bag, but this feature of YY, and this feature of ZZ, and put them all together in a spec such that NONE of the companies makes exactly what you spec - this way, everyone has a level playing field when bidding

Dumb, but prevents lawsuits

[Richard]

What makes you think they aren't re-issuing the old FB's and billing congress for a new GPS satellite?

[Richard]

http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=157296&ESRC=dod.nl

[Ian]

Even though the new stuff is cool and more versitile.
The old stuff is still the best.I mean how long have we been using it?Since like freakin Worl War Two,so it must be good.
Am I right?

[steelcobra]

"(who takes a laptop to a firefight? and what were you carrying your laptop in before the Army developed this bag?)"

SF operators use them for commo, and they can be used in addition/instead of the big touchscreens for FBCB2/Blue Force Tracker.

Hell, one Toughbook prevented a soldier from getting wounded.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/1279251.html

[Gene]

For years, I just hooked a shoulder strap from a 2 quart carrier to the eyelets on my old issue buttpack. Worked out fine. I had the buckles replaced with fastex clips.

[eddiemyboy]

It is simple,just because it works is no reason not to replace it and make some money for some military contractor.Ya gotta keep pushin' that budget dollar up,or "they" will cut your budget and you will get less of that big budget pie.Can't have that now, can we!

[Gene]

KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. When you overcomplicate stuff intended to be used in combat, it is a bad thing. Basics. Rugged, dependable, lethal rifle. Bayonet. Grenades. Good boots. Uniform that will take abuse. Canteen and metal canteen cup you can brew up in. Mussette bag. Ammo bandoleers.

How many of our guys in WW2 used these BASIC items, and kicked butt? Technology is great, but, it all boils down to the guy with the bayonet on the end of his weapon, digging the bad guys out.... Make it as easy as possible for him. And, by easy, I don't mean "Land Warrior"...

[Randall Epps]

After getting out of the Corps, I purchased several of the canvas gasmask carriers that i had used in the service. I 12 for like $20 and use them from carrying hunting supplies to my gear when i head out to the rifle range. There is probably a warehouse packed with these little items and they can be carried in many different ways.

[JByrd]

http://a1472.g.akamaitech.net/f/1472/124/4h/img.ebags.com/is/image/im9/103179_3_1?&op_sharpen=1&op_usm=1,1,1&qlt=80,1&hei=249&wid=249

check this out, I have actually carried this. My boss when I first joined carried a map case and it worked good for him. Later as a scout, I found the same to be true, it IS a functional item, and there is not enough room in a truck for patrol bags anyway, we strapped ours down in the back. I often carried a computer, every good fire direction guy should, but later mine became a PDA.

[ACE]

I took some old canvas to a local seemtress and asked her to broduce a bag (FB) that had certain charteristics. Let the troops creat their own stuff or study what they need instead of f##ing up and re-inventing the wheel.

[Eric Daniel]

JByrd,

Hey boss, what is that thing and where did you get the photo of it. I'd like to post it here but the link you provided doesn't tell me anything. Thanks!

[deanS]

Eric Daniel,
The picture of th bag posted by JByrd is made by Maxpedition I think it's this http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=20&idproduct=31

Personally I wonder how much input was received from those that are going to carry the tactical sling bag and other bag designers? I agree with the poster Gene and KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid. philosophy and after using bicycle messenger style bags for several years for school, work, commuting, and fatherhood they are great and almost the direct descendants of Musette Bags especially when you compare pictures of some of them. I have to say most of the posters here have it right why reinvent the wheel but like some of the others have said it comes down to money and new gadget factor.

[ega278]

I thought it was bad when the Army started wearing berets, and now they are going to carry camo purses?!

Seriously though, the old stuff worked just fine and it only needs to be updated with the digital pattern. Why rethink the wheel?

[steelcobra]

I'd say update the closing straps to quick-release buckles as well. The OD bag at top seems just fine if they updated the material, camo, and more modern ergonomic fittings.

[Schmedlap]

The author makes the most important point regarding this issue when he points out that, at the moment, we are largely vehicle-based in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the solutions that many of us found to stowing supplies in an accessible and unobtrusive manner was to invent ways to secure them to the back of the seats in the HMMWVs. We actually managed to re-appropriate some interceptor vests and use them as seat covers so that we could utilize the MOLLE loops and secure various MOLLE pouches for various items to the back of the seat. A useful idea would be to make seat covers that enable Soldiers to put MOLLE pouches onto the seat back in whatever customized way they see fit. Generally, we used the seat backs for extra magazines, chemlights, smoke grenades, extra zipties, et cetera.

I have seen very few products produced that Soldiers used in the way intended by the designers. Soldiers always customize in order to meet mission requirements. This is why MOLLE gear is great - because it is highly customizable. This concept should be applied to everything. Given a customizable product, the ingenuity of a PFC will always surprise the designer.

[steelcobra]

Schmedlap - SPEC-OPS make a MOLLE overvest that does exactly that, but costs about 1/10 what the interceptor does.

http://tinyurl.com/2hs6wo

[Connor]

What's with "alternate lifestyle"? Did it make ya feel better to describe the bag that way? It didn't add any value to your article for me. And you were writing for me, right?

[George]

Get over it Connor! The world does not revolve around you.

Yes, it was called a "Fag Bag" back then. But ask yourself what the history of that name is before you get your undies in a wad. It was a map case right? Who carried map cases back in the day? OFFICERS! That's right - the name is a slam against officers and not gays. The author used that name because there are a lot of people here who remember crap like that.

[Dudley]

Yup, George. One of the first things you got when you walked in the door of IOBC was a "Fag Bag". How else could they tell who the FNG was. :)

[TERRY]

WHAT WRONG WITHTHE BUTTPACK LIKE THE I WORE IN ALASKA. DID THEY DO AWAY WITH IT.

[phonegunner]

www.4wd.com has a Smittybilt seat cover that has molle loops and 7 pouches for front seats in Jeeps and one for Rear Seat also ... in Black / Tan or OD... (could always be produced in the various digital camo's I am sure... http://www.4wd.com/jeep-parts.aspx?plID=125

[Michael R. Callahan]

Having join the Army in 1978, and later the Air Force in 1985 and now in the Army National Guard, I just use what ever is available and what will work. However I never thought of military uniforms and and equipment as fasionable items. These are things I just used over the year to get the job done and to survive. I have things from WWII that my father left me, alot of Vietnam era items, but I usally never go any where with out my shelter halfs they are versatile pieces because of there large size and being made out of canvas. They can be used from ground cover to rain gear to plus they can make a lean to over head protection from the sun for fighting position especially large position like machine gun inplacements. Also great as lean to and as a tent with both sides. Sometime I use my poncho and shelter half to place my sleeping bag in when it is rainy or muddy when time dose not allow to put up tents if you do it right you can stay dry for the night, this also works if you only have a blanket out in the field too. I wish they still issued shelter halfs they were a good piece of equipment with a little thought you could make living out door a little bit better with them.

[Old Jarhead]

After reading your article, it merely reinforces the thoughts I had during my 2nd tour of 'Nam, which are...."The higher the rank of an officer, the fewer functioning brain cells." And when you put a bunch of these less than functional idiots together to come up with something, well, it's like the old saying.."A camel is nothing more than a horse put together by a committee."

[Ernie Thurston]

This sounds like the result of making someone the project officer and not having a project. So go out and invent one to justify your job...Lt!

[Ranger-12]

If you have been in the military service for over one year you know the military don’t do anything that makes common sense. If the ask you a question and you answer it with two sentences they will return it to you and tell you to write at least 10 pages so someone above you can justify their job title.
I seen this when I was an engineer in the navy we could buy things on the open market that was better and last longer and cost less then what was in the supply system, but no we couldn’t use it because it was in the supply system, no one wanted to change the rules.

It like service uniforms, we have at least four or five uniforms while I was in the navy. (We could have gotten by with two one work and one dress uniform).

Don’t look for the military to change look at the Air Force they are cutting man power so they can buy weapons systems. Are they going to train monkeys or third world people to operate those weapons systems (sub-contract personnel)?

[SFC, D Grant Cheesman]

Mike Callahan: Says it all! Give me a pair of shelter halves, a poncho, airmatress (for cold ground), plus some field pants liners and a parka W/ liner and sumpun ta smoke an a cuntry boy can survive; for a while anyway! Never forget fire; and a great scope. I can fashion my own f-----pack--the army was a great teacher: " We've done so much with so little for so long; we can do anything with nuthun now."
I got tha new bag figgered, it mus be a replacement fer tha ole slit trench. 3-tours in RVN says " It don't mean nuthun." Platoon Sergeant, USArmy, (R) Fed. investigator and still serving. Whats yer draft number? I said, whats yer+++&&^%$##@$% draft number, numb nuts? Tell tha young one's ta git 2 their local recruiter. My son is on his 3RD. Combat tour--our GUYS could usea lil hep! Right? Whatsyerf-draft#? you scumsuckimother------HA HA-See ya scouts-Merry F------Christmas

[Todd]

Who the heck needs a bag like this anyway? When you kit up with the body armor and FLC (which replaced the LBE) you have no room to wear something across your chest anyway, whether you are sitting in a vehicle or on a dismounted patrol. My assault pack is on my back (on dismounted patrols) with mission essential equipment in it, and my rifle is slung in front of me in the "ready" position. I don't want something flopping around on my body like a "FB". It was great in a peace time garrison setting, but there's no room for it in most applications for combat arms soldiers. I compare this to the black beret... some big wig at NATIC is trying to leave his mark on the army, just like General Shinseki did with the black beret. Here's an update for Shinseki... the black beret hasn't imroved the marale and comraderie of the Army, and it NEVER will! It was a waste of tens of millions of dollars, just like a new and improved "FB" is. And oh, by the way, that soft cap the beret was supposed to replace, we're still wearing that, too. NATIC does great things for the Army, this new bag just isn't one of them.

[C.]

A bunch of fat-ass pogues sitting behind a desk trying to make it "easier" to do battle.
They forget that a REAL MAN doesn't need bells and whistles, just the warrior spirit!
Screw 'em.

[Chris]

You're absolutely right. I still have my Corps-issued gas mask carrier and used to use it as a friggin' lunch bag at U of Maryland. Perfect size.

[charles orrico]

"Pack up your troubles in your ol' KIT BAG and smile, smile, smile" circa 1918, World War I

[Damus Pavlak]

I've been with the Army now for 2 plus years as a medic and one thing I have learned...Figure out how to make what you need. If your lucky your basic uniform items will work as intended. But when it comes to TA50 you need to improvise according to your job. That Bag is best left behind in garrison. At least in the field of operations we are in now.

[Dennis]

In the second paragraph you use the word "NATIC" like it is an acronym. The actual word is "Natick" as in Natick, MA which is home to an RDECOM research & development facility.

[Marty]

I have been in 15 years. 8 Active and the rest National Guard. I never deployed as active duty. I been in theater twice now as a Guardsmand and geting ready for my third. I have used ALL the military issue crap they give us and used my own NON-ISSUE brain to configure it how I want it. Being a lower enlisted I or WE had to do these things cause of the little pay we used to get. Now after being deployed we get all this extra money and no where to spend it. Now unless your immature and dont know how to utilize your checking account, use that extra money and go out and buy what YOU want from an aftermarket manufacturer like Tactical Tailor, Blackhawk, BQ, Spector, etc. like you know you will and suck it up. How much of the OCIE and RFI do you actually use in theater? How much of the issue items that you get do you actually even see? Suck it up and lets argue about the important stuff like promoting pre-maturely, the Blackwater guys getting in our way during missions(afghanistan expereince), the lack of buttons on the ACU's to replace the wearing of velcro, the lack of items that are mission essential. Lets just to what we're good at and suck it up and drive on. Take the bag that we all know we wont use, throw it in the duffle bag in theater and throw it on top of the wall locker, foot locker, under the rack, etc. and lets get the mission done !!!

[TomCat]

Some politician's family would not see large procurement contracts.

[Rod]

More of YOUR Tax Money "Hard At Work ! What a Waste of Money !

[Busch]

Think of all the lives that would have been saved in the beach assults of WWll if the troops were told to wear anything (any damn bag or pack)on front - not on back. Mind numbing if you think about it

[WestHamUnited]

Interesting idea Busch, I never thought of that. But then again, there is a reason that you carry weight on your back, and not your chest - balance. How many Marines at Tarawa, GI's at Omaha, etc., who couldn't swim particularly well, or who may have already been wounded, would have drowned as a result of falling over into the surf with all that weight on their chest? Aside from that, this particular bag doesn't look big enough to provide any real protection in that regard.

[A M-240B Gunner]

I'd like to see another bag used for carrying liked 7.62mm ammo. I have a hard time trying to figure out how to carry a combat load for that thing already, Any Ideas?

[Ron Walker]

I was in nam 66-67 as an fo we used c-4 bags that we had after we used the 20# of explosive recycle cost nothing.

[Shawn Armstrong]

This sounds like just another instance of someone justifying their job. I've been in the military for over twenty years, and really haven't found a problem getting a good bag to carry my kit in. Basically, a certain department in D & D was going to lose money if they didn't use what they had, military policy, use it or lose it, and came up with this bag idea to use up the remainder of this years fiscal budget, getting ready for next years requests.

[steelcobra]

A M-240B Gunner: This should easily hold at least 4 or 5 100-round belts when s-rolled:
http://tinyurl.com/32amrt

Plus, because it's a quick-snap Molle setup, it's a bit easier to rapidly pull out new belts from whatever position you place it on your gear, and you don't have to worry about leaving it in the truck or anything like that.

[PSYDOG]

Fag Bag is right! Looks gay'r than anything I've ever seen in my 24 yrs in the military. Butt packs are the way. One post above had it right, just put a 2qt canteen strap on your butt pack and viola'.

[robert Cornwell]

Bags bags bags,what the hell. Ihave used the ol butt pack for 30yrs. Iuse it for everything. My favorite has a shoulder strap and carries anything I need to hike-whatever.Sure standardiz cool but to reinvent the wheel c'mon.

[steelcobra]

I've got an SOB (Soldier's Optimized Buttpack). It's bigger than the old ALICE model, and since it's zipper-closed rather than the friction-pull style, so I can actually just reach back and grab what I need.

[jeepboyx9]

as an old soldier, {Korea era } all i can say, is that you never will be issued what you NEED when you need it... all a trooper can do is make what he can get his hands on, do the job he has in front of him .it ain't always easy but we always seem to make it work.. always was and always will be. stand tall you are carrying the tradition them as can do,them as can't sell stock...

[SSG]

I think its about darned time the Army replaced the old canvas "man purse." Of course the Army didn't give a definitive purpose...but to fail to say "multi-purpose versatile personal storage device," or other some such jargon fails the item.

The old man-purse had several flaws. It didn't expand, the interior dimensions were too short and narrow (FM's would protrude through the top, and you couldn't stuff other items in there). Personal items stored inside would fall to the bottom and then you really looked like you were digging through a purse.

To have a new bag that is efficient, compartmentalized, capable of carrying necessary items (PSP, Ipod, paper-back book..), and can actually accommodate a yellow highlighter without dropping to the bottom is beyond high time.

If it has sufficient surface area to adorn it with a plethora of previous unit patches I will be in GI heaven!

[Jay]

Active Army 11 years.. 3 tours in Iraq.. Ive tried to use every new piece of gear the Army's issued me, yet every time when it really counts I find myself going back to my aftermarket gear

[Retired 1stSgt]

Retired 1stSgt

You have all missed the point - find out in whose Congrssional District this "new" item is to be manufactured!

Semper Fi!

[Briton]

Retired 1stSgt, nail on the head dude.

[John]

Reminds me of my Dads (WWI the War to end all wars) Gas Mask Bag I used as a school bag 1920s.
God Bless All past and present and bring you home safely LUVYAZ John M

[loretta martin]

it is nota s goodf as the old way. velcro is too noisy

[Guy Gahres]

I sent this to my trout fishing buddy, since he likes to try new gadets. Should hold lots of fly line.

[Kraig H. Evans]

Semper Fi! I agree with the 1stSgt. I also remember the military trying to re-invent the wheel a few times while I was in with one thing or another. Sometimes it was better, but more often than not they missed the mark in one area or another, as they have with this new bag. It still amazes me that the people who are going to be using the product from day to day aren't more involved in the design process. Ask the soldiers and Marines who use it. They'll know. Either that or send it to the Isreali's. They'll make it much more better.

[Marty]

M240B gunner....the old woodland "buttpack: they had issued in the Molle Pack. The one that looked like an old school butt pack but longer, I used that for my SAW ammo. I S-rolled it in and it worked prety well in a slow paced environment. I dont know exactly how it would be in a full out engagement but I am sure its worth a try?

[B. Sievers]

I feel the same way about developing a digital camouflage system that doesn't blend with any environment that we operate in (i.e. the ACU). Somneone's making $$ at our expense.

[clifford]

Still trying to find a good M1936 for daily use. If it t'aint broke...

[steelcobra]

There is one HUGE problem with picking a COTS item. Let's say you pick a bag designed by company XX as the new standard. Company YY takes the Gov't to court to say why their bag is better.

That's not exactly true. Units often get discretionary funds to purchase items for issue, which gets around the contracts of Army-wide bulk purchasing.

[Bruce Lancaster]

The Musette bag remains a classic light pack, and needs a couple more comments. The referenced website does not adequately discuss the Marine version, which has an unmentioned and important area of superiority: The built-in shoulder strap is also a built-in pack harness-- pass it through a special loop on the pack and it becomes a pair of over-the-shoulder attachments with NO extra bits to carry. The Army one is meant to serve as a backpack only in conjunction with the period suspenders, and cannot otherwise be used as a backpack without improvising some extra parts.
Question: Every Army and Marine M 36 musette I have seen has a loop sewn in near the top of the INSIDE. Why?? There must be a reason, but I've never found one.