I just got back from a briefing at the Pentagon with Col. Kevin Vest, who is the commander of Marine aviation over in Afghanistan and Lt. Gen. George Trautman, the deputy commandant for aviation. We posted a story this morning on Military.com about a commando raid early this AM conducted by Marine Force Reconnaissance troops and Afghan commandos near Marjah. I have a few more details to reveal from my conversation with Gen. Trautman and Col. Vest on that mission.
First of all, this marks one of the first operational uses of the MV-22 Osprey during the Marjah campaign. Vest said he'd held the Ospreys back as a QRF in case the Taliban tried to make trouble in far off spots of the AO while 4,000 Marines were committed to Marjah. The only other high profile time the Osprey had been used during the operation — which is in day four — was to extract civilians bodies killed in an errant HIMARS strike from the town during a daylight mission. That's the one where an Osprey came under fire from RPGs and small arms.
For the raid this morning, which took place at 0200 Afghan time, a group of 120 Force Recon and Afghan National Army troops were inserted by three MV-22s in two waves into an "enemy controlled area" to serve as a blocking force for 3/6. The ACE for that raid included Harriers, Hueys and Cobras and a variety of UAVs and C2 platforms to count bad guy heads and keep them down.
The ACE in Afghanistan has a compliment of 10 Ospreys, but will soon receive two more from the squadron attached to the 24th MEU which helped out in Haiti. Those MV-22s will fly from the Red Sea when the MEU moves out of the Suez all the way to Afghanistan making one refueling stop, Trautman said.
Also, Kit Up has learned that three of the Ospreys in theater have the BAE Systems Remote Guardian underbelly gun system, with two more yet to be installed. Trautman said the Corps had received $30 million to buy more. Vest added that the gun hasn't yet been fired in anger.
– Christian
{ 71 comments… read them below or add one }
Great reporting. Other accounts made me wonder if they had actually conducted an airborne assault.
As a side note. I have this site listed in my gear folder for my rss reader. Are you guys going to be placing more news stories here and broadening the scope of Kit UP!?
Christian,
Great to see you are still asking the tough questions.
I have had the pleasure of personally seeing Generals and prime contractors squirm with Christian’s incisive questions. Too many members of the trade press take anything a General says at face value, without investigating to ensure their column is accurate.
I also like getting my gear reviews from a guy who spends his free time behind a rifle, shotgun, or fly rod rather than behind his computer.
S/F
You stated in your article an errant HIMARS during this campaign. It appears that both HIMARS hit exactly where they were told to hit. Hence the HIMARS was cleared for use the next day.
Something in this report doesn’t make sense. Col. Vest says that he ‘held the Ospreys back.’ However, the Associated Press posted a video showing a V-22 landing in Marjah on the second day of the offensive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8UhuPtNk4Y&feature=player_embedded), and there have been other reports of V-22s operating routinely during the early days and under fire in Marjah.
That is not Force Recon in the picture, those are grunts.
I was thinking the same thing. I was in 2nd Force Recon before I got disabled during a HALO mission and these guys are not FR. How come a MarSoc team is not on this mission anyway?
Thank God I’m no longer in The Service! You coudn’t drag me into one of those flying deathtraps with a 20-mule team!
Gabriel, he didn’t claim to confirm any of this. He just repeated what he was told, from behind a keyboard.
That is a photo of a VMM-266 Osprey, which is not in Afghanistan.
Here is a better story for Christian to pursue. Why do the Marines have to rely on the Army for most of its helo transport in Afghanistan? The Corps has around 130 MV-22s, but none are in Iraq and only 10 in Afghanistan. I would expect a couple more squadrons would go there soon, but your report is that they will just add two more to bring that squadron up to PAA.
So where are the Ospreys? Why are they “holding them back”. Do they expect the Taliban might attack New River?
Based upon an earlier article covering an ‘in-country’ interview with marine aviation personnel it was mentioned that a shortage of LRUs and other spares was inhibiting the existing fleets sortie rate. As logistics improve you should be seeing additional aircraft operating out of Afganistan . . . .but that’s just my guestimate.
Mike I could not agree more to your comments.. The V22 is a great concept but too complex and unreliable. I have always wondered why our country poured so much money into a program that will never be the first choice in hardware when it comes down to getting the mission done safely. Over the years, I have seen this program go through its highs and lows (mostly lows) and knew some of its pilots but really, does anyone really trust this death trap? Best of luck to all our troops flying this aircraft but it is just a matter of time.. Politics has a way of keeping the dead alive despite the risks, and our troops pride in the impossible is often what makes America so strong but the V22 program is one we really need to take a sanity check to this politics and pride. Often it is a losing battle where someone is needlessly going to be killed.
God bless our troops…
With over 70,000 flight hrs and 57,000 operational flight hours as of Sept. 2009 … no crashes, no casualties, it’s holding it’s own quite well.
My son was the pilot who came under fire. It sounded like no big deal but would have scared the p— out of me.
Ok folks, thanks for the cordial and insightful discussion around this. I’m going to go ahead and respond to some of your points in one comment here…
Gabriel, thanks for the compliments. I actually asked an ROE question of Vest after my Osprey ones and lead off the question with “I’m going to try to outmaneuver your boss here (Gen. Trautman) with a strategy question he didn’t want us to ask…” and boxed him in a bit. It was fun…
Jack, on the HIMARS targeting, I was repeating what Gen. Trautman said of the strike calling it a “miss.”
Confused, Vest said he held the Ospreys back to run a QRF in case the Talibs decided to take advantage of the Corps’ focus on Marjah in a place that was 100s of miles away. Marjah is only 20 kliks from Bastion where the Ospreys are located. So in the initial assault, Army 47s, 60s and Marine 53Ds and Es were used. By the way, there are no 46s in country, Vest said.
Ospreys have been doing some missions, but not many for the Marjah op since it’s so close. Stand by for some reporting on the new UH-1Y that’s part of the ACE now.
Mark, I recognize that it’s not Force…they’re notoriously camera shy. I just needed to illustrate an Osprey in action. Been trying to secure shots of MV-22 in Marjah but so far no joy.
James, I’m not sure if you’re backing me or insulting me with the “from behind a keyboard” comment. I was actually at the Pentagon in Trautman’s office talking to Vest via VTC. And not sure how much more I can confirm without actually going to Afghanistan, which I’m planning to do in May. The second part of your question demonstrates a bit of a misunderstanding of how Marines deploy an ACE…even a MEB-sized one. Vest has a number of helo assets to choose from in his kit bag, including 53Es and Ds, MV-22s, UH-1Ys and AH-1Ws and AV-8Bs…but no ACE travels to the zone with the entire inventory of the Corps’ anything…so, a squadron’s worth of Ospreys is what’s there.
Mike, I assure you if you were still in the service you would want nothing more than to fly in an MV-22 over hostile territory if given a choice of 47, 60, 53 or 46. I’ve been there, flown them all in country, and hands down I’d rather be flying at 200 kts at 10K than 100kts at 1K.
And oooraah TLM…tell your son to ping me if he wants. Would love to hear his impressions on how its working in combat.
CORRECTION: To Jack…I stand corrected. I listened to the interview recording and it was Vest who described the HIMARS strike and he did NOT say it was a miss. He even reiterated that there were both civilians AND Taliban in the casualty count.
Christian’s last post demonstrates what professional journalism used to be like. Finally, something we can trust!
The Osprey Has long been sought by the Corp to assist it’s Vertical Envelopement Missions but by comparison it has not been grounded nearly as much or as many times as the 60′s (Blackhawks) and don’t even mention F-16′s in it’s early years…Hopefully it will have a long and productive career…Would have been nice in Vietnam ’70-71…”Semper Fi”.
I help make the first wings of the Osprey. They were cast of titanium at the Precision Castparts PCC Structural Div. in Portland, Oregon. All major aircraft made today use parts made by PCC. I thought it would never fly. It was about 1995 when it was being developed.It took a long time to get it right.
thanks to general al grays hard word, the osprey is still around.
thanks to general al grays hard word, the osprey is still around.
Keep it up Christian, awesome job. The first time in years I felt like I wanted to get my gear and go.
Would have liked to had the aircraft you are talking about in Korea 1952. We landed 400 marines at the mouth of the Yellow River between North Korea and China using undersea craft called the Alligator.
Was that Marine Force Reconnaissance or was it one of the Marine Reconnaissance Battalion Units (either 1st Recon. Bn. or 2nd Recon. Bn.)? The reason for the question is that all the U.S. Marine Corps Force Reconnaissance Companies were stepped down by a formal folding of colors for each company. Those Force Recon Company units were used to form the two MARSOC units at the end of year 2006.
Albert: you are correct about Force units standing down in 2006 in order to build up MARSOC capabilities. However, in 2007 Force units were brought back on-line as a MEF asset once again.
By the way, cpauld, Marine is NEVER spelled with a small m … it’s always spelled Marine …
fyi …
mallen
You wrote:
“your question demonstrates a bit of a misunderstanding of how Marines deploy an ACE…even a MEB-sized one. Vest has a number of helo assets to choose from in his kit bag, including 53Es and Ds, MV-22s, UH-1Ys and AH-1Ws and AV-8Bs…but no ACE travels to the zone with the entire inventory of the Corps’ anything…so, a squadron’s worth of Ospreys is what’s there.”
Having spent years as part of an ACE, and knowing spinmasters, I can ensure everyone the Colonel is yanking your chain, which is why he talks to you. My question was simple. The Corps has over 130 V-22s, but only 12 in Afghanistan with no plans to add more. Since these are miracle weapons, why aren’t more there? Yes, I understand that these aircraft first flew in 1989, and it takes over two decades to sort out the parts problem for these “new” aircraft.
Just ask him when another V-22 squadron will arrive. If not, why not? Does he prefer the H-53s, that carry three times more?
Excellent article and follow up! It’s great to see it operational and doing the job efficiently and safely as intended. The AAV should be next. If nobody has noticed its predecessor was first deployed under Nixon. The Navy got its launch platform redesigned 3x since, and both the Air Force and Army benefit from the Osprey. But the third part of the over the horizon strategy is desperately inadequate. Note it is the only equipment that Marines solely would use. It’s almost as if there is some form of funding discrimination in light of the sacrifice Marines are making disproportionately with other services. It’s unfortunate the Marines can’t get a hand me down from the Army for their one unique mission. Semper Fi!
About time. I’ve been watching them trying to get this piece of crap flying since the 70′s.
The platform is outdated…even more so than the space shuttle.
I wouldn’t fly in it for anything.
I believe that any Marine with courage enough to try a pieace of equipment that has flaws is not only a hero but also shows that in order to succseed you need to fail serveral times remember if at first you don’t sucsseed try try again trial and arror and sometimes it takes bi cajones to do that , Semper/ Fi SGt. Moya
I think that it takes a real man to endeavor to take on an Osprey knowing that things are still a little on the experimental stage, please remember that much equipment in WW1, and W2 were not exactly what one expected , so I say to you any Marine than endeavors to try some piece of equipment that is not completely reliable is Devil Dog that we need in the field, I tell you from personnel experience I have tried these so called experimental weapons such as the 106 is a wonderful thing , because you delving into the unknown, which makes the Marine Corps the best fighting machine in the world , with out hesitation, emper/ Fi, Sgt. J. G. Moya
Do you really think we give up any accurate information which may harm the operational function of the units involved!?
Our involvment and tactics
Are not for publication, However the folks who want the enemy to thnk one thing while we proceed with another are giving information which confuses and causes better deployment to our advantage……….
Thanks for the great reporting, Christian.
I’ve been a civilian for the last 36 years and some of the acronyms escape me, or were not used when I was 2nd MAW (Marine Air Wing. Would you mind ‘explaining’ the acronyms with your first use, as I just did above, please?
Thanks
Doug,
I’m not Christian, but I think I can help you out even though it’s been a while for me. Since I don’t know which acronyms you do/don’t know, I’ll just go through them all. If memory serves me right…
QRF – Quick Reaction Force
AO – Area of Operation
RPGs – Rocket Propelled
Grenades
ACE – Air Combat Element
MEU – Marine Expeditionary
Unit
UAVs – Unmanned Aerial Vehicles
HIMARS – High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems
If I’m not mistaken the HIMARS used to be called MLRS. We didn’t have them when I was in, but the Army did.
Jack,
Yes you are right that in the picture, that is not Recon, it is just standard grunts. But if you was to actually read the article and not just look at the picture. You would have read that the raid took place @ 0200 afghan time. So which means that the picture couldnt have been taken at that time frame. That was just for show!
christian, thanks for the article and input, sounds like i would liked to have flown in one of those back in the day, did the one under attack have the guardian system? semper fi
MarshaA~FYI, way to get on cpaulld!! In the workings of the English language, cpauld used the word ‘Marine” as a proper adjective, thus it is always in caps. Besides that, it is a matter of respect & pride that every Marine has or should have that anytime the word “Marine” is used, it should be in caps.~SemperFi
hey mark when was the last time you were in combat force recon and the grunts wear the same uniforms haveif you knew anything about my beloved Marine Corps you would know that. we are fighting in the desert not in the jungle so we all wear the same gear as the grunts so that the taliban cant tell the difference between our troops “Semper fi”
Christian thanks so much for your positive article. The negative crap has been circulated so much for so long that people who think they know what they are talking about when it comes to the Osprey really don’t. It isn’t all their fault, all people have had to go on when it comes to the V-22 is the bad stuff from the past put out by the media. I have been providing Mission Planning support to the guys that fly this bird for 16 years and I’m here to tell ya, this is a great asset and it will in the end save more lives then it will ever take. The Marines that fly it love it. Good job! Semper Fi
Nice to see the Oprey operational. As a young Naval Aviator who served with Kevin Vest in HMH-462, I had selected H-53′s with the hope of transitioning to this cool piece of gear, my loss that it never happened. It is great to see it finally taking our young hard chargers into the fight. Hey Kevin! The Stinkman!
hey ppl we can forget why we’er there (9-11) them assholes an’t going to quit. i prase the marines for what they do, mistakes happen and thats war (war is hell)god knows that the army cant get done what the marines can. god speed to you all, my dad was a marine and he tought me well and if i could be there with our real america heros i would with all my heart i pray for the men and women of the corp every day and we will win this war. screw irak we dnt need to be there!!!
I AM SO VERY PROUD OF ALL OF YOU MILITARY MEN AND WOMEN, YOU ARE THE BEST OF THE BEST AMERICANS…THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, THANK YOU SO VERY VERY MUCH FOR PROTECTING US, YOU’RE ALL HERO’S IN MY BOOK.
SEMPER FI…..
Semper Fi to all my Brothers and Sisters in the Corp, 71-73
To mike,
quote”With over 70,000 flight hrs and 57,000 operational flight hours as of Sept. 2009 … no crashes, no casualties, it’s holding it’s own quite well.”
Some information for you.
From wiki
Main article: Accidents and incidents involving the V-22 Osprey
A U.S. V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft flies a test mission
From 1991 to 2000 there were four significant crashes, and a total of 30 fatalities, during testing:[18]
* On 11 June 1991, a mis-wired flight control system led to two minor injuries when the left nacelle struck the ground while the aircraft was hovering 15 feet in the air, causing it to bounce and catch fire.
* On 20 July 1992, a leaking gearbox led to a fire in the right nacelle, causing the aircraft to drop into the Potomac River in front of an audience of Congressmen and other government officials at Quantico, killing all seven on board and grounding the aircraft for 11 months.
* On 8 April 2000, a V-22 loaded with Marines to simulate a rescue, attempted to land at Marana Northwest Regional Airport in Arizona, stalled when its right rotor entered vortex ring state, rolled over, crashed, and exploded, killing all 19 on board.[22]
* On 11 December 2000, after a catastrophic hydraulic leak and subsequent software instrument failure, a V-22 fell 1,600 feet into a forest in Jacksonville, North Carolina, killing all four aboard.
Since becoming operational in 2006, the V-22 has had seven other notable, but minor incidents.
Semper fi
I served with HMH462 in Okinawa,1970-was great to see my unit mentioned.semper phi
I served at New River with HMLA-167 from 01-03.. I saw the OSPREY up close many times and just from the looks of it i never wanted too step foot on it and im glad i did not.. One of my captains was also involved in changing some flight hours on the OSPREY so you wonder why they crash, there not worth it.. Semper Fi always but the CORPS is a changing not my cup of tea anymore..
I wanted to clear up some mis-conceptions I read in these comments about the V-22.
First, the Marine Corp does NOT have over 130 of them. Only ~115 have been delivered, and of those, over 20 have been de-commissioned as they were the “experimental” first builds. They were not de-commissioned due to being “worn out”, they were de-commissioned due to the expense entailed to upgrade them to combat readiness. Thus you are down to only 90 to 95 aircraft, which is actually a limited number of assets since there is at least one training squadron utilizing some of those 90-95 assets as well as several assets being utilized in flight test for future upgrades. Thus the reason for only one squadron in Afghanistan.
Second, they are NOT a replacement for the H-53′s. Yes the 53 carries more, IT WAS DESIGNED TO! The V-22 was NEVER designed as a heavy lift (which is what the 53 is designated and used as), it was designed as a medium lift which it more than fills the bill. It can carry more, further, and faster than the CH-46 (which it IS replacing) could ever think of.
Third, when under a microscope, every incident involving an airframe comes to light, yet no differentiation is made between mishaps caused by maintenance and pilot error and mishaps caused by inherent flaws in the airframe. Put other airframes under this same scrutiny with the same disregard as to cause of those mishaps and the case could be made for dispensing with them as well. As someone else pointed out, the F-16 is a very troubled airframe. I know I worked them. One squadron of F-16′s had more flight mishaps in nine months than a squadron of A-10′s had in THREE YEARS!
In closing, if my son was in the service as a pilot, I would feel much more comfortable knowing he was flying a V-22 than if he was flying an F-16. If he was a Marine, I would DEFINITELY feel much better knowing he was being ferried in a V-22 than ANY of the other helo’s available. As Christian pointed out, it is much safer to be flying at 200+kts at 10k+ than flying at 100kts or less at 5k or less. And if he was wounded I would hope and pray it was a V-22 coming to pick him up. It will get him to a hospital faster than any other SAR (Search and Rescue) asset.
Don’t believe anyone who says too complex or unreliable. Those comments come from people who don’t know anything and just like to run their suck. The Osprey is an awesome machine that allows us to do more and to do it safely. Name another rotorcraft that will fly at 20K ft. Name another rotorcraft with a 250kt Vh. Name another rotorcraft that will allow gator freighters to park over the curvature of the earth so people on shore can’t target them will anti-ship weapons. Name another rotorcraft that flew from from New River, NC to Farnsborough, UK for the 2005 Farnsborough Airshow without aerial refueling.
If my son was a pilot I wouldn’t mind him flying the Osprey.
Seems Our Corps will do anything they can to keep them out of harms way.
The Corps still needs an airframe that can go in under fire to Medivac our wounded and resupply our troops.
As one of the 1st crew chiefs of a 46 I definitely am aware of the inherent dangers of new a/c. One of our a/c was one of the CH 46A’s to lose the aft pylon. I crewed the 46D in Viet Nam. At least we had a means of protecting ourselves.
Just do a search for “V-22 scandal” to be appalled. They have these spinmasters roaming the net spreading garbage. The CBO did a report last year after congress asked that says the Corps was funded 156 MV-22s through FY2009. Congress pressed the Corps where these 40 or so missing V-22s were. After much dancing, they were unable to explain.
Now it seems there are even more missing V-22s, retired after damage, yet no Class A mishap reports.
I am so tired of the V-22 bashing, I have been working on and with the V-22 since 1996, and while there have been a few problems along the way the aircraft has been by far one of the safest aircraft built, tested and delivered as part of the Marine and Air Force inventory (fleet). As with any new aircraft there will be problems and crashes, as for deployment; they just don’t through it into the middle of the mix but it is an introduction. The introduction includes: How can we deploy this aircraft, what is the best use and where can we best use it? Most of the people that have bad things to say about the V-22 have never flown in it, worked on it, or have a clue about the training (which is by far the best training ever provided to the services). If you any questions about my background I’ll put it to rest. I have just shy of 4,000 hrs in H53A/D/E, 100 hrs in UH1N, 50 hrs in 46E, 25 hrs front seat AH1W, 200 hrs in H60s and the V-22. Each aircraft has its need and use and the 46 while a good aircraft is a dying breed, it’s old, and tired. As for working on any of the aircraft…I have over 30 yrs on aircraft and still a wrench…what is yours claim to fame other than there is no way you could get me in one of those things or anything else bad you’d like to say…I’d love to go head to head…
It’s a “complement” of helos, Marines or anything else.
it’s a “compliment” when they get a Well Done.
As a former Marine and retired Sp. forces operative I can only say that Iam so proud of you guys.But most importantly we back home didn’t know that any thin like your op. was going on until it was on.And Iam happy because opsec. Is truly the name of the game guys stay as safe as you can and remember their are a lot of us back home praying for you all.
your brother in Armes
Cameron/old salt
Rock!
As I have over a 1000 hr in the V-22, it’s a great A/C. Every airframe has problems. The problems that the V-22 has now a days is SMALL. DON’T start bashing the V-22 when you don’t know what you are talking about. A lot of you have no clue and some of you do. Stop reading history books and look at what we are doing TODAY, NOT what happened years ago. Because years ago we can look at the history of a lot of different A/C and see way more problems and deaths than what the V-22 has done. Get to love this A/C because it is NOT going away any time soon. Also it’s taking care of our troops in harms way. Semper fi
I’m a former Marine (1965-1968)Vietnam and am so proud of my brothers and sisters.We’re a proud family.Just keep up the good work in spite of a government that is basically tying your hands again instead of allowing you guys to destroy the enemy without all of these B.S. rules about civilian casualties.IT’S WAR PEOPLE.Again, I’m proud of you guys.
My son deploys out in less than 20 days for that hell hole. If you ask him he’s damn glad the v-22′s are there. Trained out of both. The new plan for getting Marines in and out of cops fast is what they look forward to the V-22. High altitude operations, and speed. Time will tell but speed will save wounded lives and the distant cop’s will need that speed for getting the wounded back asap. As well as fast re supply.
After reading all of the comments on the V-22 Osprey: I would love to have the oppotunity to go to combat in one of those magnificient birds. I have stood on Onslow Beach and watched them during troop movements and it was a grand, moving site. I was one of the first Marines to try out the Vertical Envelopement manouvers in a Sirkorsky Helo in the Pacific theater in 1956 and we were all a bit scared but we landed safe and sound from ship to shore. It is imperative that Marines test new and innovatve methods of defeating the enemy today just as it was then. Good reporting !!
Whit, 53-61 USMC / USARMY 72-96.
The V-22 is not ready for deployment and so far, not much more then a huge waste of taxpayers dollars. For 5% of the $$$$$$$$$ invested in the V-22, they could have armored a fleet of CH-53′s and so equipped them with all sorts of weapons and counter measures to be much more effective and reliable a vehicle to acheave the desired effect.
These comments are typical of what the internet is these days. A bunch of people unfamiliar with a subject other than what they see in news sound bites spouting off like they’re experts.
While I don’t have as much experience as Gary on the V22 or in aviation, I did work on it for 5 years and go to combat with it.
It worked fine, no better no worse than any other airframe that was there. Do a quick search on any other airframe, f/w or helo, in the military inventory and compare how many crashes they have had in the same timespan as the osprey. You’d be surprised. Or maybe not since everyone here is an expert.
Can’t help but laugh at the one guy comparing a heavy lift helo to a medium lift one. That’s like comparing a Chevy Colorado to a Ford F450.
Glad to see this thing is being further integrated into the wide array of weapons available.
Way to go Force Recon, show them how its done.
God Bless
David Hayes
Force Recon
1970-73
Scott,
Correction.
RPG = Ruchnoy Protivotankovy Granatomyot (English for handheld antitank grenade launcher)
HIMARS = Is not the MLRS. HIMARS is lighter than the old MLRS but fires the same munitions.
?Spinmasters? That CBO report was a case of spin if there ever was one. I can tell you un-equivocally that there was NOT 156 aircraft built as of 2009. Yes the FUNDING was budgeted, but that is for a 5 year multi-year contract, that number of aircraft was NEVER intended to be completed by 2009. Some parts for aircraft have to be funded up to a year or more in advance before anything even resembling an aircraft takes shape.
Know what you are talking about before you start bashing something. That goes for the journalists, Senator’s, and Congressmen as well that want to run off at the mouth without even knowing what they are talking about.
I reiterate, if ANY previous airframe had been subjected to the same scrutiny as the V-22, we would still be flying P-51′s or probably even P-40′s. And not even sure of those, because I know for a fact the P-51 had teething pains, but those were DEFINITELY buried as it was war time. Heck, as far as that goes, we would not be flying AT ALL!
I’ve been out the Corps ( Force Recon) for over 40 years now and i guess i just don’t keep up with all things military. Hearing all the acronyms makes my brain hurt because the one’s we used back in the 60′s don’t correlate to todays jargon. LoL…Semper Fi
and WhhooooAAHhh/ ARRRRuuuoooGGaaHH
and sometimes, eeeEEERRRRBBBAA
Old School
I’m not sure if it has been mentioned prior to this, but the text “BEA Systems Remote Guardian underbelly gun system” should read “BAE Systems Remote Guardian underbelly gun system”.
BEA Systems, Inc. is a subsidiary of Oracle Corporation, specializing in enterprise infrastructure software products known as “middleware”, which connect software applications to databases.
BAE Systems is a global defense, security and aerospace company. BAE Systems delivers a full range of products and services for air, land and naval forces, as well as advanced electronics, security, information technology solutions and customer support services.
A bit of current information for you all from a Col that worked at HQMC until last week and is headed to theater next month:
* It is not LtGen Trautman’s or Col Vest’s decision on how many Osprey’s go to the fight, it is the Combatant Commander’s (CENTCOM in this case) registered requirement with the Joint Staff that ID’s only the desire for a MAGTF of a certain number. Based on the mission analysis by the MARCENT staff the required size and makeup of the MAGTF is forwarded to MARFORCOM (Marine component of JFCOM) for a recommended sourcing solution and forwarded to the Commandant (through PP&O) for approval. We source to the requirement from the commander. Period.
* The Osprey squadrons are seriously busy. They are either preparing to deploy themselves, deploying on MEU’s, flying training missions stateside, or providing the real aircraft for the RAGs to train the new pilots. Again, we source to the requirement.
* The Marine Corps does not do MEDEVAC. We do CASEVAC. The MEDEVAC mission is the Title 10 responsibility of the US Army.
* The HIMARS fires the same rockets as the MLRS but is truck mounted instead of tracked and has half the rockets.
* The Osprey still has challenges with the maintenance levels but they are a combat multiplier on the battlefield.
* From amphibious landing craft to close air support, to vertical assault, to VSTOL aircraft, to digital MARPAT camouflage, Marines have always been at the forefront of applying new technologies to the battlefield. The Osprey is no different. Semper Fi!
your right i would rather fly in a helicopter that the tail falls off in flight or in one that used to twist it self in half. All aircraft have there problems the crashes listed above where mostly human error the wiring was done wrong by one of the maintainers not the factory. the leak should of been caught before flight. I work on the air station and seen all the aircraft broke down.I have worked on the Osprey for three years and flown on them cross country plenty of times and made it there and back with no problems or minor ones. I have yet to see any osprey or other aircraft crash. But i do know that if you look it up and look the facts straght in the face you will see that the 53 and 46 hueys and cobras have all crashed and killed more people in the present then the osprey, not combined each. All from failures not being shot down. So do your research, dont just belittle something because its new and replacing the 46. Are you going to down the ch-53 kilo when it comes out its already in production. It will be made of composite not metal like the osprey you 53 people should beware. It might be a “flying death trap”. Are you going to be afraid of flying on it since it is new or will you say this aircraft has been around for awhile. Wrong it will be a 53 but a completly different platform.
Ok, first I have to say, go figure. Harry Dunn shows up on this blog to add his two and a half cents worth. Yes, I know that its you Harry, because who else would dedicate so much of his time to blog against the Osprey and is also allied with Carlton Meyer from G2mil. Harry, the Viet Nam war is over. A lot of the tactics you used there are no longer used. Now that I have this off my chest, I just heard from a wife of a Navy Corpsman. She said that her husband has flown around Afghanistan in a V-22 during several missions, and he is thankful because the aircraft is there to transport him….transport him safely and out of harms way. This is not something that I could not boast as a CH-46 pilot, but now as a V-22 pilot, with over 600 hours, I can proudly say I fly this machine far and above the threat, and at 2.5 times the speed. I have been reading the posts of nay sayers over the past 7 years, and for the most part, they are very uneducated about the real facts. They are heard by stating mistruths such as the Time article about not having a forward firing gun. You see, the truth is, no assault support platform has a forward firing weapon. And honestly, the V-22 is in and out of the threat environment so quickly, that you would be talking about defending against a threat that would only exist about 10 seconds during a mission. If you are saying that we should not transport our Marines, Sailors and Soldier in a V-22, then what you are saying is that they are not worth our best technology and that their lives are worth risking in another platform that is vulnerable to enemy fire. Thanks for letting me rant. Oh and John, you can rest easily knowing that Marines like me are working everyday to ensure that the Osprey is the safest, best mode of transport that your son can ride it. I would bet my life on this.
P.S. Christian, thanks for being so truthfull about this aircraft. Yes, it may have its warts, but it has also revolutionized assault support.
I’d give my arm to get a ride in an Osprey. After crewing an old H34 in Nam, imagine 300+MPH medevacs. Lots of lives will be saved. This is an excellent bird.
Ooorah
how many negative comments came from those who never raised their arm to the square,took the oath, picked up a weapon, and stood a post?Let us do our job!
Here you say “all” force units were merged with Marsoc? None of the 4th Mardiv Force Recon units merged. Even when the active duty units no longer had Force the Reserves Maintained the Force Recon units.
Christian,
In response to a writer who stated the V-22 was an undesirable and unsafe platform to fly into combat in, you stated:
“Mike, I assure you if you were still in the service you would want nothing more than to fly in an MV-22 over hostile territory if given a choice of 47, 60, 53 or 46. I’ve been there, flown them all in country, and hands down I’d rather be flying at 200 kts at 10K than 100kts at 1K.”
I must say that you have demonstrated a fundamental lack of helo-based assault tactics and enemy threat envelopes. In fact, flying at 10k feet and 200 knots is a far more dangerous profile of flight than that of the combat flight regime of any other Marine helicopter which in fact is more along the lines of 50 feet and 100 knots. The V-22 has DOCUMENTED problems flying in this regime for many reasons cheifly those concerning prolonged flight in helicopter conversion mode especially near the ground. I hope you find this post informative and I hope you take some time to actually research a topic before you take the face-value word of a General and a Colonel who are more than likely NEVER going to say anything negative about the program.