In an announcement released Nov. 29 on the Federal Business Opportunities Web site, the Army is asking all rifle makers who want to compete in the upcoming Improved Carbine search to test their weapons on the services potent new M855A1 cartridge and to make sure their guns can work with the M28 shotgun and M320 grenade launcher attached.
According to Lt. Col. Chris Lehner, the program manager for individual weapons, the new round is only available for government purchase, so in the interest of fairness to all those companies who have 5.56 designs, the service wanted to make sure all the candidates could fire the new round without encountering serious problems.
The first iteration of Familiarization firing will be on a 25yd and 300yd range (one or more days on each range). A third, 100m indoor range, may be available (availability pending the final count of vendors participating).
The service is also inviting manufacturers to confirm their designs are compatible with “enablers” like the H&K-made M320 grenade launcher and the M26 magazine-fed shotgun. But this is not a firing event and is not restricted to 5.56 rifles.
The so-called “familiarization shoot” than “compatibility tests” will be conducted at HP White labs in Street, Md., from January – May of next year. But the important thing is that all companies who want to participate MUST REGISTER BETWEEN DECEMBER 6 to DECEMBER 10 by calling HP White and getting in the lottery for a time and date.
Interested vendors must register through: H.P. White Laboratory,Inc., Ray McBride, Lester Roane, or Frank Barile at 410-838-6550 December 06 - 10, 2010. All other inquiries please contact: The U.S. Army, ArmyContracting Command (ACC) Joint Munitions & Lethality (JM&L) ContractingCenter, CCJM-MA, Bldg 10, Attn: Pete Snedeker, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000 at peter.snedeker@us.army.mil. This is a special notice only and is forplanning purposes only.
In a conversation with Lehner to fill out the details of the announcement, I asked whether the 5.56 only test shoot is a forecast that the Army wants a 5.56 replacement for the M4. He explained that this was merely a way for manufacturers to shoot their rifle with the round now being used by most Soldiers in the field — the 5.56×45 M855A1 cartridge. Other rounds like the 6.8 and 7.62 are already commercially available. There is no prejudice toward the 5.56 for the improved carbine program, he said.
And to make it even more fair, Lehner has arranged for a follow up test shoot for vendors who needed to tweak their designs in light of their weapon’s performance in the initial trial with the M855A1 round. In other words, if your gun screws up firing the new bullet, you have a chance to change some barrel twist, retool the bolt or add some length and reshoot.
As Lehner put it:
We want these guys to have a stress free environment where they can shoot our ammunition, they don’t have to worry about the government looking over their shoulder [since it's at HP White] collecting information on them and then they can make their tweaks, and then they can come to the competition.
{ 34 comments… read them below or add one }
I still think this program is all a BIG farse. Since the Army is improving the M-4 and the Marines are adopting the HK 416 I dont see the M-4 going away soon. The fact the army seems to only want to use 5.56 only convinces me more of this.
The adoption of a new rifle wont happen for years, which is why the Army is simply improving the M4 in the meantime. Afghanistan has proven that the M4 is substandard in many of today's battlefields, unlike the previous thinking that most wars would take place in urban environments (Iraq). I agree that it looks like the Corp is trying to adopt the HK416 overall, but in the meantime its only replacing the M249. It does puzzle me why the Army wants a 5.56 shoot, but I guess if the new M855A1 cartridge could cause problems for the possible carbine replacements then it makes sense to make sure.
There has been a HUGE uproar from soldiers, Congress, and the general population to replace the M4/M16 weapons we've been using for over 40 years, so I do think that its a strong possibility this competition isn't a gimmick. However, it would cost a ton of money, so adopting a new rifle Army wide won't happen for years down the road until our economy really improves.
Overall if I were a bettin man I'd put money down on either the new Colt CM901 or the Remington ACR. Why? Because their American designed carbines. Its highly unlikely Congress or the Army would adopt a foreign designed gun to be the symbol of the US Army Rifleman. The SCAR is Belgian, the HK416 and XM8 is German. The other US contenders simply don't compete against Cost or the ACR. The Robinson XCR is a very cool multi caliber carbine, but Robinson lacks the experience of Colt or Rembington; the LWRC carbines that the DEA is using in Afghanistan has had problems galore. A friend of mine remembers the DEA guys he met in the Stan were begging for Colt M4s.
The 1911 was replaced by the Beretta M9 (Italy), and, on a very small scale, the SigSauer M11(Germany). SOCOM bought the H&K MK23( Germany). I wouldn't count foreign manufactures building in use (FN) out.
M249, M240. They don't give a **** where its designed as long as its made in America.
The point is the primary carbine is more of a symbol of the rifleman than our Italian pistols and Belgian machine guns are. Its a symbol for the American military, and I'll put money down that the next carbine will have an American name attached to it.
The Marines aren't getting the 416. It is a variant of it not actually the 416. AFAIK the USMC isn't trying to replace all off their rifles with the IAR just to use it instead of the M249 almost all the time. As for the huge uproar from soldiers that is a lie. Most members of the military are fine with the M16/M4.
Lance the reason 5.56 is most likely is because 7.62 NATO in a carbine is a bad idea. The recoil would be bad because of the weapon's low weight. A 6mm design can't really be accepted. Atleast not until a 6mm round becomes a NATO standard. Which leaves 5.56 as the only viable option.
I disagree with a NATO standard round. For all practical purposes NATO is no longer significant, and is dying. Every year the Europeans contribute less and less to NATO.. The U.S. military went several centuries without worrying about what caliber the Europeans were shooting, and did quite well. We need to adopt a small arms round that is best for the U.S. military, not what NATO might be using. Without the U.S., NATO is a toothless tiger.
Lack of a common round didn't stop us from winning WWII.
Go ahead and disagree with it however don't ignore the fact that they have had plenty of time to not only adopt a 6mm round but even get a .45 cal pistol. They haven't done either. Amazingly they keep using the NATO standards.
Technically though the Army and Marines are not using NATO standards but they are both 5.56mm instead of 6mm. If the US decides to got he 6mm route, which I doubt, then I'm sure the rest of NATO would follow suit however in general we go by the NATO standard. I really doubt however they would change from 5.56mm after just starting to get the M855A1. Even if they wanted to DOD might not let them due to the cost to make 6mm bullets in the same fashion or even just to get regular 6mm bullets.
What's a farse? LMAO!
I think everyone is ignoring the real issue here… The magic PT belt around the soldier's waist. Now THAT is a weapon.
Looks like a Stable Belt to me…
It's called a Fluorescent Army Gear (FAG) belt. Apparently the Army can't stop Soldiers from being hit by moving vehicles, so the belt is supposed to help. Ridiculous.
Dress me up in camoflage and put me out in the dark, then give some other sleep-deprived guy a truck where the cab is 8 feet off the ground. But a cheap reflective belt will keep me safe!
If they want a carbine, the only logical choices are 6.8 or 7.62 NATO calibers. I personally love my AR-10 A2 Carbine… the recoil is not that much more than the M4—with improved accuracy and power at long range over the 5.56. If carrying a combat load of 7.62 NATO is too much, go for the 6.8. The bottom line is that the 5.56 was designed to be fired out of a full length barrel for proper burn and velocity. If they want a carbine, they are going to need a new cartridge.
Does anyone else remember they used to call the 5.56 the 'Meat Axe' back in the Vietnam conflict?!?! It used to literally tear off arms. It is not the caliber its ammunition and twist rate of the rifling in the bore of the weapon.
Your right. It was slightly unstable which allowed it to tumble and cause more damage than the heavier, stable rounds we use now.
It was also several hundred feet per second higher velocity. The M193 round was a very effective round out to about 250-300 yards, about what the 7.672×39 is good for. Then we had to take a short-medium range round that was effective and try and turn it into a long range round that would penetrate light armor.
No matter how awesome of a rifle you have, hide the freaking illumination belt!!!
You can't fight a war these days without your PT belt. Here in Kuwait cause the CG ran PT on a main road and almost got ran over by a local national we have to wear these damn things.
Guys, the photo used in the post is from an Army shooting competition…jeez, you can see the point just sailing blissfully over some of yall's heads…ugh…
A gunshop offered me a Rock River carbine chambered for 6.8mm. I want the gas/piston system, so i declined. The Colt M-4 is not going anywhere. The 5.56 we are using in a-stan does not have the range. The AK round may be bigger, but its not accurate over 300 yds. It comes down to politics. Why does the Coast Guard issue .40 cal SIG's while the Army gets the 9mm? Colt has a strangle hold on weapons procurement. Don't expect much to change. I really like that 6.8, but i read Bushmaster and Rock have had problems with their 6.8mm. Is this true?
FN Herstal in South Carolina makes our rifles and machine guns, not Colt.
Not all weapons are made by FN. I have seen FN in other companies in the OK National guard. Mine is made by Colt, I have had H&R (Harrington and Richardson of Ilion NY) as my primary weapon when I was at Sill in ’86-’88.
Lets not forget the 6.5 Grendal, it has a lot to recommend it, including long range accuracy and power, that equals or surpasses the 7.62, all in a lighter-shorter package. Whatever they decide, they really should decide on a caliber/cartridge first, then you can build the weapon system around it.
We don't need an oddball round to complicate the supply system and it will never replace the NATO 7.62
Sorry but I am not in love with the 7.62, aka 308 winchester. Yes, it is a good round, but in the past 50 years better rounds have been developed that will do anything the 7.62 will do, only do it better in a smaller lighter package. There is nothing magic about the 7.62, except that we have been shooting that caliber since the 1890s. If you are worried about complicating the supply system, than we should stick with the 5.56 aka 223 Remington.
I invite you all to read a detailed article about the M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round recently posted on the U.S. Army website. This article was written by the Product Manager for Small-Caliber Ammunition and gives a more in-depth explaination on why the new round excels.
http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/11/26/48657-evolut…
This article illustrates a point a lot of people forget about when arguing about what caliber is best. Not all 5.56 rounds are the same, like the new M855A1 round and the SOCOM MK262.
Is there a M28 shotgun system ior is it refering to the M26 ?
need to start using 6.8 or 6.9 the 243 equal.
A .50 Beowolf for a few guys might be good too. take out vehicles
The Bren Ten 10mm or .45 ACP handguns too. Kill quick, save ammo.
Don't care what name is on it. It will be manufactured in the US. I rather have something that works in the battlefield than something that looks good in a poster.
I agree, I'd rather carry something that I know will get the job done in the most efficient manner. I'm just saying that the people who decide what gun we get don't care about that, as long as it has a "made in USA" sticker on it.
Where are the modern day John Brownings, John Garands and Eugene Stoners?