At yesterday’s round table with PEO Soldier program managers, one of my colleagues asked a journalisticly simple question about the new OEF Camouflage Pattern uniforms being hurriedly fielded to Joes (and now Airmen) in Afghanistan — but one that truly encapsulates the issue with MultiCam/OCP.
PEO Soldier Brig. Gen. Pete Fuller said issuing MultiCam uniforms “was like giving candy to a kid. Everybody wants it. And they want it now.”
REPORTER: You said the “kids” down range are excited about MultiCam — why are they so excited about it?
PEO’s BILL COLE: They just feel that in the terrain they’re operating in Afghanistan it’s just a much more effective camouflage pattern for them.
PEO’s FULLER: I think the kids are seeing hey, you listened and you did something. So, regardless of what the charts say, the kids are saying you’re listening to me, and you got me something and I think it’s cooler looking because it’s greener than this [UCP] and this [UCP] didn’t really match in Afghanistan.
It all boils down to confidence, Fuller said.
“The kids look like they’re well camouflaged in Afghanistan wearing this pattern,” he added.
Well, besides that fact that MultiCam looks cool as hell, it’s way more effective than UCP in varied environments. And now that more Joes are wearing it in the field, we have more evidence of that fact. Just look at the following pics to see for yourself.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Cole also said -- just an FYI -- that the Army had just this week issued aviator uniforms in OCP, including all the survival equipment printed in that pattern]
AND NOW, THE CONTROL GROUP: See if you can pick out the Soldiers against the background…
{ 105 comments… read them below or add one }
I honestly dont see why everyone is so upset with the word "kids", I mean yeah it can be taken offensively but I mean I am 23 and I call my parents and some adults kid. Its just the way the General talks, I am pretty sure he has full respect for us on the field. But I am wondering the same thing SleepyDave, I am active duty 19K .
I'm not sure how I feel about multicam pattern boots. It seems kind of silly to me, but thats me. I'll stick with the tan if I can, or the new MCB is apparently pretty nice.
depepnding on where you're from geographically, the term, "kid" is/can be used quite often to a plethora of different demographics. Personally, I could care less what GEN Whatshisname has to say. I want to know why someone wasn't jailed for issueing that hand-job of a contract for ACU? Or better yet, why the Army is now fielding 4 different uniforms? I should've joined the Marines.
What four uniforms? I have only seen references to 3…..
The Army does plan to eventually field 4 different camouflage patterns, 3 for uniforms and 1 for gear (packs, armor, etc.). The plan is for 1 pattern for woodlands/forests, 1 for deserts, 1 for transitional areas that's kind of grassy and kind of sandy at the same time, and 1 pattern that works reasonably well in all 3 for things like packs, body armor, & pouches so the Army doesn't have to maintain 3 sets (each in a different camo pattern) of that sort of stuff.
What's silly is that the Army is retaining the ACU in UCP for garrison wear instead of just ditching it all together. And what's even sillier is that (I believe) that that in the definition of "in garrison" the Army is also including troops deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan but stationed at almost anything larger than a FOB. Why bother having them deploy with 2 different sets of uniforms, one of which they're only going to wear while on base? If they're going to do that why not require them to bring along their Class A's too while they're at it, that way they can occasionally designate it the Uniform of the Day or for uniform inspections or some other useless function while deployed.
Totally agree. I can understand the idea of using OCP as regional pattern and sticking to UCP for garrison duty, but leaving people stuck with UCP in field is irresponsible…..
So I guess fragging is more common than I've heard, then?…..
No, you simply don't follow morons without first offering a recomendation towards common sense. Have you ever been in or recently fought over seas?
It's a term of affection. I was at a BCT post for the first time in over 30 years last summer and was shocked at how young everone looked (then I remembered that I was that age when I went through). And don't you remember how everyone wanted the newest gear when it came out? Today's Soldiers are no different. Don't read too much into the "kids" moniker, I've used it myself with no insult intended.
It's not ACU that's the problem…..it's UCP which is the actual camoflauge pattern…just sayin'
I was about to post the same thing. Multicam isn't a uniform pattern but camouflage pattern and ACU is a uniform pattern and not a camouflage pattern. The ACU can be in any camouflage pattern in the world and it would still be the ACU; what's being fielded now is the ACU in Multicam/OCP, same cut, same number and placement of pockets, same velcro, different camo pattern.
I think that UCP ARPAT or ACU as the airsoft warriors like to call it is the best (Urban camo) Meaning built up streets and concrete everywhere! It's far from effective when it comes to some woodland and some desert/wood mix areas. It does work very well under NV but we are not facing an Enemy that uses NV and we are not fighting in build up city well at least not in Afganistan. Multicam is far better camo when it comes to nature and the new digital version Digi3 or AOR-3 is proving even more effective. I am one of the only people that believe ARPAT should be kept for NV/Urban missions. I think we can all agree that Multicam is not best in down town urban areas.
A new camo coming called "Pure Camo" works even better then Multicam
the video of it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5QPm2ax6hs
and the desert test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uit0UWpCroo&fe…
Agreed. I can understand why the Army would keep the ACU/UCP for garrison issue. And I would definitely take UCP over Multicam in a developed urban area….
Hey why dont we all go down to mamby pamby land and learn how to effectively gripe Huh! I think the army should all go to the surplus store and buy some woodland camo and some blue jeans and get back out there and fight. All of you are cowering behind the damn keyboard istead of figuring out who is personally responsible for the blue uniform an white boot fiasco and string him or her up legaly of course. The army should fight in thier forest green class A if they want to, they all should have that! The enemy wears rags or what ever and the bottom line is fight yahear!
@Alvin
I don't think the ability to purchase liquor and or cigarettes qualifies you as an Adult.
HURRAY,ITS ABOUT TIME I'VE HAD MY OWN SET ABOUT 2 YRS NOW FROM BDU.COM.I AM A RETIRED IRAQI VET WHO SAID BACK THEN IF WE WOULD HAVE HAD THESE IN IRAQ IN O.I.F.4 WE WOULD HAVE WAD MORE ARMY SOLIDERS ALIVE NOW.THE REASON I'M NOT STILL SERVING BECAUSE OF WOUNDS RECIVED IN RAMADI FOB CAMP CORREGDOR MAYBE I WOULD STILL BE W/ YOU ALL.GOD HAS BLESSED YOU GUYS,AND THE CHAIN FINALLY GOT THAT CHAIN FROM AROUND THERE MOUTH AND STARTED SOMETHING GOOD. I WHILE THERE I WANTED TO WARE MARINE DESERT CAMI'S BUT YOU ALL KNOW HOW THAT GOES.ANDI WOULD LIKE TO SEND A SPECIAL SHOUT OUT TO THE S.F. AND DELTA .YOU PERFECTED THEM FROM A RANGER " GIVE THEM ONE FOR ME" DRIVE ON
All Caps Seriously?
Old enough to serve, should be old enough to drink and smoke.
Holy cow people- he wasn't being disrespectful- he was giving the media an idea of just how excited they are to get this new stuff. If you'd like other examples, go watch the CARMAX Superbowl commercial- there are plenty of others, this is just the most common (or at least I thought until I saw some of these responses). Take a chill pill and get upset about something that matters.
Cuz here's another thought- maybe he was refering to them as his own children? Most people would die for their children's safety- with a gov that wants to blow money for the sake of blowing money (look at the joke of camo they were handing out), how is this a bad thing that this General is protective of his troops and wants the best for them (yes, I realize he's a General of procurement, the field troops don't actually report to him, but so what? Even more reason to admire the fact that he's taking their safety into his consideration).
I'm not a ACU supporter but those images a bit bit misleading. Better measure would be what it looks like from a distance – how difficult is it for an enemy to acquire a sight picture.
LIKE I SAID BEFORE ,YOU ARMY MEN HAD BEST GET SOME B.D.U.s BACK ON OR GO FIGHT IN YOUR GREEN CLASS A. UNIFORM !
Every day since that blue thing come out with off white boots all of you have been griping and where has it gotten you? You men wear the A.C.U. everywhere (work,travel,airports,recruiting,civialian affairs and what ever)! Do any of you believe that screwball beret belongs in this hemisphere? Will somebody in the army tell me why not one joker in the army has never accused or brought charges against any one individual responsible for this debacle, HUH! Go rogue get BDUs back on, its death by enemy or the enemy within.
At least Soldiers don't put on their dress blues just to go to the mall to try and impress chicks. You can't tell me every Marine that wears dress blues to the mall just happens to be on their way to some formal event somewhere.
Class A's, or even Class B's would get the job done. But then again, wouldn't be quite the chick-magnet would it?
At least the beret, when worn properly has tradition behind it. Anyone who wears a beret owes it to those who wore it before them to wear it with pride and distinction. Dress blues have tradition, but are supposed to be for formal events, which makes it a little much for just hanging out with teenage girls, wouldn't you say?
Regulation headgear is above any Soldiers paygrade, but over the top uniform choices to teenage hangouts are certainly a personal decision.
It's best to stay in your lane, Marine.
-Op Desert Storm (1991) and IOF II (2004-2005)
Hey BigSarge, Try posting again. You army men cannot read for nothing can you! I've stated all along that that you army men are getting messed over. Blue uniform and white boots is the topic, who's responsible, why no charges, why so much money, why is no body in the whole army telling command to shove it.
We Marines are clean and properly dressed for what ever the assignment requires, thats it .
I have raised appropiate questions that demand appropiate answers you got that fat sarge.
I served six years in the army before having enough and starting all over in the Marines , do you have a problem with that ? You got any pertinent information on the topic HUH.
In the desert my caucasian skin tone blends in.
ARE YOU SERIOUS, MAN?!
UCP was a chairborne/armchair generl's baby. They saw a way to have a legacy or an OER bullet for 0-7. If you leave the decision to a geek at NATICK or worse a computer. This is what you get for all your tax dollars…. Moon-flague!
You have to admit, though, that it gave the Army a unique look no one would mistake for anyone else. It was one of the goals of MARPAT, and one of two things UCP got right……
If they had left the decision to the geeks at NATICK the Army would have fielded All Over Brush years ago & Multicam would remain as primarily the airsofter's baby.
We Marines started the cammo bit as an issue item in the 1970s(left overs from vietnam) then in 1980 the BDU came out, now everybody is a Marine wanna be look alike. Desert storm came along and somebody said to us Marines that they did'nt know who we were then we all had to wear name an branch tapes. It was a jerk move. The Woodland camo is and was the best. and as you grunts know that camoflage is something you do when you get were your going and the BDU was more than effective at simplifying this. The MARPAT was our answer to getting back our traditional individuality and it has worked. You army men need to exhibit some back back bone and get the old camo out and fight. You all also need to find the ones responsible and put them accountable for thier fiasco!
No one and, I mean no one wants to be a marine wannabe. Really ? The only reason you wear name tapes is simple. You are the loudest servicemember in the bunch. when the enemy takes aim, he will aim for the loudest one in the bunch. We just want to ensure the enemy knows that the loudest is a marine. It's best to keep the noise down, keep your head down and be silent. Bullets don't find you as well when this is practiced.
Semper Fi
p.s. The first follks to wear camo uniforms in the modern era were Italians during the late 1930's. The first American forces to wear camo unies were the Green Mountain Boys. Their lineage is traced to the modern day Army Rangers.
David this is a information and discussion forum, little humor here and there is okay but this is no place to attack a fellow warrior because you misread my comment. I ask that you take caution in the use of the Marine motto as it is both proud and somber. This forum is issue based and if you have grievance with my comment I suggest you reread it.
Sounds like someone is backtracking… Doesn't seem like a Marine move. In fact, it doesn't sound like a Marine at all. Just another guy sitting at a computer. Strip yourselves of your "factions". We're all brothers in arms. We are all warriors. So knock it off with the sucker punches and grab your damn rifle. The enemy is out there. Not here.
OH I'm a Leatherneck and then some! Reread my comments you army sansculottic mobs.
You know, one tries to stand with another in support against wrongs and what do you get, B.S. from babies with no dicipline. Break out your dictionaries boys its obvious none of you can communicate on line much less with your superiors. The army has wanted to get rid of the A.C.U. longer than we fought World War Two, do you boys think some things are going on you should know about. How's that for backtracking you malfunctioning sensible one! You army men need to get some back bone even if it kills you, or you all can just sit back and be a sycophant.
Like I said before your on your own now, like an insufferable woman.
You should learn how to roll your sleeves up correctly like the AF and ARMY. When we need our sleeves down in a hurry you just give it a pull and down they are. You guys have to roll them down…doesn’t make any sense. I guess you’re right all the other services want to be a Marine wanna be.
Seems a few of you career recruits have a entertainment problem with marine man. I think the guy is telling it like it is and you should be aware he's on the right side. When an active army 4 star general wears a blue uniform and white boots to the battlefield in the 21st century, what does that connote!__ When your a flag officer especialy the chief of staff you have the power to right wrongs like turning on and off a light switch. The army fights great if the army gets its fighters together and fights, but the uniform problem is beyond belief. The navy is worse than the army with three types of camo. The marine man is right, with every mothers brother, aunt and uncle in the army and no one prevented it, I cannot think of any other word in the warrior sense to describe it but cowardice.
Okay now the fun begins, we marines just have too much bicep an tricep to wear our sleeves rolled and fold like everybody else. HaHa. AF Guy we need to stay with the issue like I have done, I ask that you read into what I said.
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding Army. How about you actually add some insight to the discussion and quit trying to be a propaganda machine for the Marines. I served with marines in Afghan. and have to say I was not impressed with what I saw and I didnt serve with a few, I was posted at FOB Leatherneck. Being Army we were the minority on the Marine FOB so I saw first hand. As for the patteren or Marshmallows as we call them, if it works great as we need a new one. The ACU does not blend in with anything besides a gravelpit, a couch, and moldy bread. As for us being in the fight…who do you think was first in afghan…..SF!
The army has a million plus members in it, not one of you has taken the initiative to get your greens back , give the beret back to the rangers and so on. Perhaps rolling stone magazine can get involved and get somebody else fired.
It may sound that I despise the the stinking army and I do, but not the men fighting and when one of you get yourselves killed or hurt it effects me deeply! Well I said my pieces and I'll reaffirm that some of you need to stand up to the enemy within and get something done even if it causes your own demise.
I don't know why you are insistent on our troops using their green dress uniforms for field use. As for the berets, that has already been aired and mocked accordingly…..
We all fight the same fight and we all swore an oath to protect this wonderful country.
I came in with the ACU uniform, but grew up playing army in my uncles old BDU's, playing in the woods I couldn't be found. Now wearing ACU pattern is kind of funny. I know I can easily be spotted after having worn it in different areas. As for a new uniform bring it on. Eventually we will have uniforms specific to enviorment and that will probably only be fielded to those whom need them.
Personally I am 25 years old, been in for 3 years and don't personally care if I am stuck in ACUs for the next few years just because I am one of those paper pushers, and I would much rather see better uniforms on those in the line of fire who need them then a new box of friggen pens on my desk. If all we can do is squable about who to point a finger at rather then tell them HOW TO IMPROVE then your just a lot of hot air. Those that are in, chain of command. Those that aren't… write your congress person. Get over it. and move on!
I Believe that the rangers should get there beret back they earn it. I wouldnt mind going back to the PC
I am with you 300% Marine Man. We in the Army should start having, some pride and respect for the uniforms. Is about time, from generals to privates, to begin using the" Dress Uniforms", classes A's or B's for the right ocassions (ceremonies,travels,graduations,clerical or office work,classroom training,etc.). There should be more presence and colorfullness, in regard to the uniform. And, by the way, it woud be a great recruiting instrument as part of the Army recruiting effort.
Regrettably, being an idiot isn't a crime. Shame, really.
Hooah!
Curious how hours and hours are spent arguing over uniforms and boots and helmets and calibers, but NO one says much about the fact that we've been fighting for ten years, against an enemy who doesn't wear a uniform, who shoots a rusty AK and who still keeps fighting. Osama Bin Laden? Remember him? And what of Iran? Still dangerous. End of combat operations in Iraq hasn't meant a damn thing in the GWOT, and blowing up Talibs hasn't done a thing to make Afghanistan any less corrupt. Come to think of it, maybe the only progress IS in our uniforms. RANGERS LEAD THE WAY.
Look all of you men, I mentioned the green dress uniform for your field use because its absurd? but the greens is better than blue and white! heck who ever see's the army dress in anything but the ACU anyway, profound is'nt it. I have said nothing but good things to all of you in english and fair at that. I remember missions in the pacific wearing shorts, t-shirt ,belt with a KaBar and thats it untill I had the time to get some cammies on, until that time I felt like Tarzan. The Marine Corps is reissueing woodland utilities to some of special operations.
I served in the army both active and reserve and found out it was chaos and pathetic, I started all over in the Corps, much better!
I just like everyone else out there is weary of the army and its uniform war. I've stated my position now all of you are on your own.
Look, I just wrote down below (FatChixRule is the name) and what really matters…What the REAL question is…What America needs to know most about is….Did…you…get…that…thing…that…I…sent…to…you? Honestly, how do you feel about PB&J sandwiches? Better then Baseball flavored pie am I right?
Hey ! How about……We wear what the enemy wears. That is probably the best camo-right ? I mean, who else would know what to wear in combat in his AO but the enemy combat soldier. I can see the enemy getting ready to take aim at us with a shoulder fired weapon, looking thru his viewfinder and abruptly stopping because he thinks his target is a friendly because of the clothes his target is wearing. Beards wouldn't be a bad idea either. That is what they wear over there. I dunno, but, when in Afghanistan do as the Afghanis….
Excellent point; however, we are a professional military, not a ragtag group of terrorists and militia. At least for the rank and file, uniformity to a certain degree will be necessary. The specops are a different story…..
BTW, who gives a f*** about a stupid uniform. The only thing that counts is a superior fighting posture along with skills. The revolution was won with bright blue uniforms, the Civil war with blue uniforms, the SA war didnt have any camo, lasted ten days and we acquired a whole bunch of land. During WW2 and Korea we wore non subdued patches on our camies and still kicked ass. How many pictures of Vietnam vets do I see with white or black/gold nametapes in combat. We were still superior to the enemy during that political goat screw. The only uni I see that was one color was the WW1 uniform. That's probably because we weren't wearing patches yet.
A uniform ?? Semantics !!
Col Henry Moore was once asked how he balances being a father with being an officer and he replied, "I believe being good at one will make me better at the other." The young men and women coming out of basic are the same age as the children of senior NCOs and officers. When someone refers to you has "kids", there's probably a family type commitment to your training, proffesional development and your personal safety.
Start worrying when they refer to you as KIDS.
That last line should read: START WORRYING WHEN THEY STOP CALLING YOU KIDS.
The MG is probably older than dirt, so any young soldier to him is a kid. Which tells me the MG hasn't been in the field in quite some time! Probably been sitting on his stars in D.C. or Aberdeen, definitely somewhere safe. You know someone is getting a fat kickback every time the military changes uniforms. I just wonder how much it was this time? The ACUs' was the Armies answer to the Marines' digitals and the ACUs' failed miserable, at a cost of millions. Now, the Army is going to try again, maybe this time they will get their collective heads out of their forth point of contact. God bless our military, and this great nation!
KIDS???? Some have fought and died, others are scared for life, some with lost limbs, others are fortunate to have survived and retired!!!!!!!! But! Kids! Never! Nam Vet!
WTF, over???! That term takes me back a ways. Perhaps to the early 70"s. "kids? Well, I'm older than dirt and my kids are in their 30's. I love them, and I loved all the Kids who worked for me while on active duty. God bless them all. E-7 retired.
Hey OLD MAN (aka BG Fuller), When my son was killed in Iraq he was not a "kid", he was a man, a soldier and a patriot !! In all of my 33 years in the military I never addressed my troops as kids !! Show a little respect. I'm sure you would not like to be addressed as an old man.
About bloody time the effin' leadership listened…. now they need a much better rifle than that barrel bustin' M-4.
Are our troops still issued those ineffective .22 cal rifles? They need something more effective at long range.
I like it
As an ex pilet of the F-15 my bigs fear was getting shot down with nothing more then my issued 9mm. So I pack in my bag a tack force 9mm. Its short, full auto and effective in some range.
Had to throw in the "Women" comment. I guess you're welcome for the 19th. Hell, the women I served with were more Men the most of the men I knew back home. It's a status, not a sex in the way it's being used. Get over it. As for the issue at hand…. The uniforms look great. I just don't know why the Air Force keeps on insisting that they actually need them. As a Marine with 4 tours under my belt in both combats zones (Iraq and Gany for you who aren't keeping score), I can't remember a time where we ran across a couple of Chair Force employees. Stick with the birds. The sponges (Army(soak up the bullets)) can stick with fucking shit up and the Marine can play mommy for the country and clean up the mess. When we call in Steel Rain, they the Chair Force can get out of their barracks in Gany and play delivery MEN. So I guess to wrap things up what I'm really trying to say it that I love PB&J sandwiches. Nothing better.
In Megaforce, we prefer plain old OD, trad 3 color desert, or just jeans, t-shirt and a watchcap. But if your head fits in the jar, MARPAT ain't bad either. Cheers.
Like the Dragon Skin body armor procurement issue, DoD & DoA Procurement is woefully overdue for a major overhaul about how it operates. Gear that can saves lives takes HOW MANY years to actually be issued to every unit being deployed into current combat zones ? As a retired Army/Guard vet of VN & combat medic of Desert Storm, the issue of effective camo uniforms hit home. We had to buy & trade Iraqi souvenirs to another unit to obtain our DCUs in time to return home. We did the whole stint in Saudi, Iraq & Kuwait in the old green BDUs and stuck out like sore thumbs in the sand box. One general tried to encourage us with the BS that captured Iraqi documents believed the soldiers in the green BDU's "must have been Special Forces" to be that conspicuous.
Nice try one star !
So, some general makes a butthole decision about ACUs. The real push came from a CSM who was like a special ops god. I didn't like the swap out from BDUs, either, especially the rationale given: black is a color that doesn't exist in nature. Huh? As for the berets, they should've never been given to regular soldiers when they had been the province of RANGERS. Everybody I know hates them, would rather have a patrol cap, or if they had to be stuck with a beret, would've taken the tan one foisted on the RANGERS after Shinseki highjacked the black ones. But all of this is crap. To start with, no Marine should be telling anybody in the Army-the senior service and prime war fighters-what they should and shouldn't be wearing. You jarheads a re a 9 foot stack of crap without the squids telling you what to do. The Brits have more uni combinations than anybody, and they get the job done. The Israelis differentiate their units by the color of their berets, and I don't think anybody, even if you don't like Jews or Israel, will argue with their warfighting skills. In short, it doesn't matter what you wear, but how many bad guys you take care of.
I like what you have to say and agree with you, But watch your mouth behind the keyboard. No name calling okay. Just a reminder , I did six years in the Army before having enough and starting all over in the Marine Corps.
Back to the issue, You said some interesting about a CSM responsible in this matter, do you have anymore information. P.S. This uniform debacle is a 4 or 5 million dollar serious regret, I believe I could have used some of that money for my stimulus. The government has just sent over 100 million dollars to Vietnam to fix up all our old Helicopters for thier civil defense. I believe that could be spent on free BDU"s for everyone! The bottom line is I want somebody held accountable for the uniform fiasco .
Camo the Weapons and take off the Red white and blue American Flag/ replace with multicam. Replace black patches with camo or use only (in base). Just a country boy but black sticks out like a sore thumb!!! We did it with old fatigues when we went from blue to black name tages etc…
Oh yea, And at 57 with bad eyes, I still spotted at least one of the "hidden" soldiers!
Well, if they had not strapped on and uniformed up. then yes, they are still kids. Even though I took chances with my life in joining the Marine Corps at 18 and working to defend our country, I was still a kid, making stupid choices and doing dumb things. That is why 18 year olds are rarely made NCOs or officers, and even on the rare occaision when a 20 year old becomes a corporal or sergeant, these advancements and promotions were likely because those individuals showed extraordinary maturity and discernment and deserved to be thought of as a mature adult, and not some idiot Pvt or PFC. Even so, there are plenty of immature NCOs and officers out there, and I don't think I'm alone in saying that rank does not mean maturity. Am I proud of these guys and gals? You betcha! Don't get too full of yourselves and start thinking that just because you sign on the dotted line and enter bootcamp or OCS that you have somehow graduated into some higher realm of maturity and sophisticated thought. Yes, the military is full of kids, and I'm darned proud of most of them.
The case that proves my point is WIKILEAKS. Do you really think that this idiotic Army PFC was anything but selfish and childish in doing what he did? I grew up in the service of my country, and I see reality for what it truly is. Yes, they are all still kids, but some really great kids. I only hope and pray that they will have the chance to mature and grow up, and not get their collective heads blown off by the childishness of some quickly elevated Sgt or some wet-nosed 2nd Lt, or even by the over-promoted Major or General that sends them in to to a mans or womans work
these "kids" are being made into officers just in case you didn't know.
I 100 % No Young man or woman is a kid once they take their oath in the Military No matter what Armed forces These men and women are once they are swore in I was very young once. I was still to be known as kid am stil am at 51years old. We are the home of brave the ones who volunteer to Serve and with President Obama Commander- in -Chief we will have open views of sexuality preference We have to this if America is going to have pernament an ALL Volunteer Amed Forces, this inclides the Reserves and National Guards.
If I was wearing all the stars and had the call to make an order….It would be all American Forces are to be fitted and wearing the same battle uniform. In this day and age it sounds and looks like it would be the MultiCam/OCP. Each branch would have it's name and branch tapes sewn on. Rank would be subdued collar pin on and that would be it. Fancy patches and all the extra bullshit would be left for off duty and on your civi gear. The huge cost savings in long frame to all the tax payers would be both expected and right. Why does every branch need to spend so much flipping time, hours, money and fighting over a non issue? As far as weapon camo…. that is simple. flat paints, strips of multi cam cloth when needed and when nothing else is available mother earth components…. OK….. So, lets say we give the contract to 3-4 AMERICAN companies and all uniforms will be made in America as well as the boots too…. So in a nutshell keep Americans working and lower the cost of Uniform of the year clubs…. I would make it military order ONE and it would be 100% all members in new gear by 1Jan12.
What an ridiculous exchange. The entire debate re AF in camo is truly absurd given their duty – in Afghanistan or anywhere else. Ther only AFSC's in the entire USAF that actually have a valid case for camo are CCT and PJ's. All the rest are would be entirely appropriately garbed in gabardine! If want to be looked upon as a "bad***" why didn't you enlist in the Marines or Army INFANTRY – and not some desk sitting specialty. Those support jobs are undoubtedly important to the overall mission and not to be diminished. But to suggest your role is comparable – and validated by what you wear – to the guys actually walking patrol amongst and engaging the enemy on a daily basis – vs your sitting "inside the wire" is a real refelction of how you are acytaully viewed. Get real folks and grow up!
So according to you, the USAF cops, crew chiefs, Missile maintenance, ground ops, weapons specialists and generally anyone on the flight line don't need to be as invisible as possible and aren't deserving of decent camo uniforms. Unless you were on a flight line that came under fire, had to run for cover and prayed that you blended in with the scenery don' t comment…
Who are are you responding to or are you just ignorantly trolling for a response? I'm guessing that the voices in your head are arguing about AF camo, because I haven't seen the ABUs mentioned much in this discussion, let alone be debated. You're partially right, though. Most AF personnel have a need for high-speed gear or camo uniforms. If this was 1995 then you'd be spot-on. But you're doing a huge disservice to the large number of Tactical Air Control Parties, Security Forces, Civil Engineers, Explosive Ordinance Disposal troops, and Transportation troops (my apologies to those folks who also fit in the category but I've missed) who's duty requirements regularly take them "outside the wire" both as an independent force as well as attached to their Marine Corp and Army brothers and sisters. That doesn't count the countless other AFSCs who regularly fill the gap that the Army can't manage to fill.
Enter text right herThee!
One for all and all for…each other. I was a bit surprised seeing the snipers and grunts in an article about Air Force cammo. As far as I know, the Air Force does not do those things.
And if the Marines hold true to form, when the other services get the new cammo, they will get the retired patterns, the inferior material, etc. Are they still carrying the M-14, or are they up to the M-16?
So to "crackedlesnses" question, yes we're all on the same team, and our competition for honors and budgets often leads to a little chaos (see Grenada, Panama, the Iranian Hostage rescue, etc.). But if all the services were forced into the same mold for the sake of uniformity, you would be disappointed. And we'd lose all those inter-service rivalry jokes.
Understood. Thanks…..
So who makes the money on the unie changes?
Hey UVR…. Think OPSEC!!!!!!!!!! No instructions given here. hooah?
Airborne80,
Not an OPSEC issue. Warnings were in the training and field manuals for years. Belligerents will have read those and acted appropriately. As Vice Chief of Staff of the Army Gen. Peter Chiarelli said, "The enemy we face is taking great advantage of simple, affordable technologies such as cell phones and other rudimentary components used to make improvised explosive devises, to command and control forces, and to usher in a new form of information warfare," he said. "The fact is we don't talk enough about how very, very good the enemy is. They truly are formidable adversaries."
Meanwhile, he said, the Army struggles to put the latest technology into the hands of Soldiers due to the difficulty of pushing the latest tools through antiquated procurement processes.
see http://www.army.mil/-news/2010/08/06/43358-chiare…
the Marine Corp should look into the (A-tacs Advanced Tactical Concealment System) http://www.a-tacs.com
Learn from the U.S.M.C. They get it right , they get it done. Get rid of the .9mm. Get back the .45. Give the best riflemen in the world a .30 cal for the extreme range they operate in. Let them hump the load they need, not what they might need, its too heavy. Adjust for extreme terrain. The enemy was born there & fight light.
Finally, it's about time for a change. The only thing the old camo was good for was making you nearly invisible while standing on a road so an Iraqi cab driver would have a feasible excuse for splattering you all over the countryside.
Pre-Deployment upon orders. Flightsuits will be in OCP (all camo flightgear will be OCP)
That image was shocking. Even though I am not a soldier anymore that is an important issue to me. Does not surprise me the brass didn't considered or research that threat. Thank you for that vital information.
INDEED!
ybada bla bla bla. yabba yabba bla bla oo-rah! zip bip bibble, kadda kadda ba. ma ma muddamudda fou fou poo.
endless war….
Instead of DCU's you must mean BDUs, right? Take it from an old vet. Female vet from Vietnam, we wore jungles.
No, DCU's are the brown uniforms that we were issued early on for OIF. BDUs are the green uniforms.
As a former Marine Corps Scout/Sniper I am well adept at camoflage and concealment. The fact is that all of this alters depending on your surroundings. And it can actually change several times during the course of one mission. Quit complaining and get out there and take the fight to the enemy no matter what you've been given to wear. The enemy fights in rags with rusty weapons. We have such an advantage when it comes to camoflage. I am proud to have served this country and am praying for ALL of our men and women in uniform…no matter what uniform they are wearing. SEMPER FI!!!
PEO Soldier Brig. Gen. Pete Fuller said issuing MultiCam uniforms “was like giving candy to a kid. Everybody wants it. And they want it now.”
Operative words, "Was like giving candy to kids." At what point did he call the folks downrange "kids"? Go work on your reading comprehension, and realize he was using what's known as a 'simile.' He was *NOT* calling anybody kids. Grow the hell up, and act like the professionals you all pretend to be…
Read more: http://kitup.military.com/2011/02/why-multicamocp…
OK, i read further, and he referred to them as kids. I'm gonna go drink a bottle a scotch now, and please let this be my admitting I'm a douche….
*** you
They're excited because it doesn't look stupid like the ABU does.
Candy to kids what an asshole!
Nice to see some snaps of the "Red Bull" division In Country !
Im in the army and i want the new multi cam it looks better and yeah it works better for hidding us in the field. About the weapons you can paint camo on them up to the units tho.
The Multicam/OCP pattern is sadly only authorized while in country. When a unit deployed with Multicam gets back to the states, it all goes back to ACU again.
Go with multicam it works
When are we going to get rid of the disastreous ACU ? The worst combat ,all purposes and ocassions, and anything else imagine, been used in the history of the United States Army.
I wish we could. The big army can paint their weapons, but it got shot down for us at company leve
I wish we could. big army says we can paint our weapons, but it got shot down for us at company level
**** you