So, the folks at Soldier Systems Daily have updated their post on the gun that killed bin Laden.
Well the whole 901 bit turned out to be a bad piece of info, but from a good source. However, UBL was gunned down using German engineering – the HK416 which was my gut feeling from the very beginning. This is confirmed to the point that I feel comfortable updating this story. Ultimately, as my readers have pointed out, it doesn’t matter what got him so long as he is dead.
Also, my good friend Rob Curtis who’s a master photographer and runs the Gear Scout blog has the same info.
(photo McNasty)
{ 83 comments… read them below or add one }
Is it true the QRF who were on stand-by during the raid, were FAST Marines? I know plenty of GDBA FAST types and that's the rumor, so any confirmation will be appreciated.
i'm gonna be in fast, then make my way to marsoc, then jsoc, then retire to sad/water.
STFU
For SOG/Maritime Branch, you have to be former SEAL Team 6 or Navy EOD/Diver.
Please, your killing me. Silence.
I heard T1 guys have bigger schlongs than the rest of SOCOM and even bigger when compared to the rest of us, Live Action Role Players.
Are there any gay SEALs?
Why is the article about a 416, but the gun in the picture a MK18?
What unit do you think were standing by for QRF? Who do both (T1) groups almost always use for QRF?
It ain't FAST…
Thats NOT a MK-18 in the pic.
I work on plenty of guns for fith group and I can say that is definitley a mk18. you can pick out the hk 416 by the handguards alone. the hk 416 handguards don’t have the external bolts like those on the mk18.
Cool im surprised that the SEALS now use H&K 416s now. thought only Delta was the main user. With the USMC adopting it who knows the 416 is the future US main rifle.
Pics of seals with HKs have been around for a while now. And the Corp is adopting a variant of the HK416 to serve as an AR, not a replacement for the M16A4.
Everybody wants what Delta has, FACT!
And there goes number 3, Lance! Jokes aside, the HK416 is a great weapon, and I, like you, thought that only the Delta used it and that they were asked to return those weapons some months ago!
I think what weapon was used is moot though! Whereas it was an M4, an Mk17, an Mp7, a P90… IT matters not… What matters is that it got the job done!
I am sure the sales of the new civilian version of the HK416 will get higher sales numbers than before, but that will be it!
GIven the specs of the ICP (improved CArbine Program), the HK416 or a variant of it would be welcome to the tests, provided they would get the hyper-burst thing going…! LOL
@ Ricardo Almeida
The Hyper Burst option is a bit of a dream shot none of the current carbines have that option. The M-27 is proving itself in combat and ill be the USMC will want other variants as time goes by.
Marine F.A.S.T. Company or AKA …..Fake Ass Seal Team
WHO CARES???
I mean seriously who cares which gun was used? I understand that this is a gear oriented blog, that's why I come here, but this is starting to get a little ridiculous.
The rifle isnt gear?
I care. I wanna know every little detail of how the bastard was killed. Just my opinion.
Was the caliber used 5.56mm or 6.8?
I believe that the M416 is 5.56 and the M468 is the 6.8 varient
m468 is a Beretta and a differnt gun, not a HK 416
M468 is made by Barrett, not Baretta, HK416 is made by Heckler and Koch.
OH, and HK416 is 5.56. The HK417 is 7.62, but AFAIK not adopted by US SOF.
The standard HK416 is in 5.56mm but I believe one can also get it in 6.8mm
I use Bic shaver to shave my hairy nuts.
The real question should be, why is he wearing Fox racing motocross gloves. maybe its personal preference, just thought it was odd.
The REAL question is, why in the hell do we use foreign equipment? I find it odd that the US military buys arms from oversea. I guess, US equipment is just shit.
Lance is right its not a MK18 in the picture. It’s just an M4A1. SOPMOD (Crane) stock, RIS II rail system, and some accessories that don’t appear to be SOPMOD issue. Scope is ACOG TA01SF. Hard to tell if that light is a surefire scout or not, front flip sight looks to be KAC. I can see how SD got it mixed up though. Similar setups.
Oh by the way. I wanna know what weapon killed Bin Laden. I live, breath, eat, and sleep guns. I love this stuff!
Sorry guys, I can admit when I’m wrong. As stated by others in this thread, and my apologies to SD, this is a MK18. The angle of the photo kinda threw me off. The RIS II handguard appears to be longer than 9.5 in.. Of course there is no way to be certain since we can’t see the barrel, I don’t know of any guys running a MK18 handguard on an M4A1. All my other info on the accessories is accurate.
This was posted in another thread but seems appropritate here. Kevin Dockery states:
"Mk 18 Mod 1 Colt Navy CQBR as the primary weapon 10.3 inch barrel, Knight M4QD suppressor. That's about all I know right now that I can talk about really at all. .And it is only an educated guess based on what some people have told me. Weren't any SMGs to speak of and I can't confirm the pistols except that they weren't the Mk 23. May have been the HK USP45CT because of its size, even with a can. I've got some requests out to confirm the ammo at EBR 5.56mm Cycler subsonic, but that's waiting."
There was more but that was the gist of it. MK18 is what I heard also, but now some are saying the 416. It may remain to be seen.
Too Funny.
Yeah that's an Mk18 with the RIS II rail system. Also known as a CQBR. Unfortunately not a 416. The reason the picture is cropped where it is is because there was a BFA on the gun and the guys who posted it online didn't think it looked tacticool enough. It's set up with an LMT SOPMOD stock, TA01NSN ACOG and a Surefire scout light.
How do I know all that stuff? Because that's me. Believe it if you want to, or not. The pic was taken during a mobility exercise, and originally sent to TAD gear in return for some goodies they hooked me up with.
As for the Fox gloves, I've found that Mountain Bike Gloves give the absolute best dexterity and feel of anything I've tried. They don't last long but they're amazing while they do. I'm also wearing a TAD Combat jacket LT and Crye Combat pants. The vest is a LBT 1961A with the utility pouches cut off.
Why the preference for the even shorter barreled Mk.18? Isn't the M4A1 short enough for most jobs in Afghanistan? Going shorter than the 14.5 inch barrel is very problematic I would think. Personally I don't see the use for such "combat carbines" outside of some very specialized roles (ship boarding actions) and as a possible vehicle crewman PDW.
Cool….What kind of vert grip is that you have? I don’t think I have ever seen it before. Also what kind of helmet are you wearing? Just curious. Keep up the good fight!
I've seen a very similar kind on airsoft rifles…..
Sad that the first thing you thought to comment on was how you have a plastic pellet gun that looks similar to the one in the pic. Truly sad! Have you served before, or are you now? Just asking because mentioning the airsoft guns is kind of risky with this group…you know what I mean?
better mcnasty pic:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcnasty09/2656775907…
That's a Delta Operator in that picture, not DEVGRU as the picture suggest.
I heard it was an Tokyo Marui AEG that killed UBL. It was a 6mm BB at 450 fps. The SEALs got them custom on eBay from Hong Kong along with Multicam uniforms and Condor gear. On the weekends on the airsoft fields they call themselves Delta Force Green Seal Recon Rangers Team 7.
That was awesome
Does it really matter what gun was used. Why is so much info getting out. Im a retired Marine and worked in communications. Hasnt anyone in todays military ever heard of need to know. The only thing any of us need to know is that he is dead. Why do we really need to know who did it or what they used or how they got there. Just think of how hard its going to be to do this kind of mission again. If you aren't authorized to talk about things that go on why would you. Any one that lets out info should be found and put in the brig or worse.
I absolutely agree..its shocking that this much info has been released..now the team is worried about retaliation against their families
Yeah, unless you're seeing a pic of barrel length I'm not, my money's on the MK18. I work with the MK18, 416 and the 14.5" DD RIS on a daily basis here. Even seen a 417 or two here.
I hear ya Chuck. Over at Gearscout, they keep spouting which squadron it was who did the hit. Bad enough some s-bag leaked that out to begin with.
you s–t birds complain about what gear they use or what unit did the deed, it did not matter if it was a 5.56 or 20mm round just as long as he was done for worry about or troops getting back so they can deploy on the border and help the rest of us real veterans get rid of our drug cartel problems and border jumpers we have just as many problems down here in the south to worry about
You assume you're the only vet here? Nice. I agree we need to pull out, pull back, and strengthen our borders.
Why anyone assumes this war is over because UBL is sleeping with the fish is beyond me. We can expect (and have been briefed to expect) a surge in retalitory strikes.
This is far from over…
i mean i love this site learning about all the crazy stuff the military uses i mean i dont know much about guns i will admit it but i wanna know what type of gun was used but i also know im pretty sure the which seal killed ubl prolly could of walked in there and thrown a fuzzy puppy at him and still killed him cuz thats how badass they are.
I agree with the "too much information is been let out" idea.
I mean, won't all of this only aid those who our boys chase down? How we got there, what we took, what we used, what went wrong, how we avoided confrontation with Pakistan, how we bypassed their security, what could they have done to cause more trouble, and all those other details, only helps them know what to expect next time, and how to make our hunter's job harder.
I know SOF have many tricks up their sleeves. But the closer we hold THEIR cards to OUR chest, the safer they will be when performing their job.
That's just my 2 cents.
The following applies to this article:
"Guns don't kill people, people do!"
the firearm that wacked the big guy was the best for this situation made in the world. the DevGru guys have access to any killing system in the world. what they chose was what they knew would do the job best. i think the round was 6.8. on the bird they all decided to take no prisoners. at one point they said to one another "this could be it," and it was. great training, great equipment, great leadership all results to a GREAT MISSION. i know, i was there… in spirit anyways, with my TEAMMATES. HOO YAH!
The story changes everyday.
I don't think anybody knows who or what weapon killed bin laden, too bad it wasn't a box cutter though.
I do like the new SEAL team 6 patch as shown by the German's, Star Trek Maquis squadron LOL
What's next, do we glorify the ammo too?
The stunt we pulled in Pakistan is exactly the same stunt we condemn in other nations. We're world -class hypocrites as well as first class liars. We are not at war with Pakistan, we violated Pakistan's sovereignty, The team was made up of military and CIA neither of which are authorized to be under arms in Pakistan for the purpose of assassination or execution. The White House flunky kept mentioning that "justice" was rendered. Wrongo!! Justice is exactly what was circumvented as Obama decided to play both judge and jury all by himself.
Michael Moore is right in saying that we lost something that day, by sinking to the enemy's level and taking the law into our hands. We claim to be a nation of laws,,,except when there's an opportunity to flex our muscles. We kid ourselves big time if we think the world can't see the hypocrisy of this move.
Micheal Moore is a scumbag and anyone who thinks "we lost something that day" is a loser.
That isn’t true. POTUS had already explained to Pakistan that if UBL was in their country that the US would pursue him. Pakistan had already agreed to let US SOF to operate within its borders on a contingent basis. I’m sure they were not told about the raid, however this type of mission would not have been successful had we gave up that info. It was imperative that only those individuals involved be briefed for OP SEC reasons. We operate within many countries in order to collect intel to save American lives, the lives of you and your family. If you knew what I knew you would not be against that.
UBL was an enemy combatant in the Global war on terror. The raid team was absolutely justified in taking him out. Would you rather him been brought to the US to stand trial? That would have been a war in and of itself. This man confesed to planning 1000′s of murders. He would have been sentenced to death anyway. You need to wake up and appreciate the things that have been done for your family. I’m proud to be a veteran of the Army Special Operations community, and damn proud of my Navy brothers for having done what should have been done a long time ago!
You and your mindset is EXACTLY what's wrong with our country.
Oh yeah, keep on believing we're not operating in Pakistan and this was a one time thing…
nobody can win a war with their hands tied behind their backs. If you want to win you have to play dirty sometimes. If everyone had your pansy attitude we would all still be talking german. It's this attitude that disgusts me, war is dirty and wrong so let's finish it as soon as possible!
You must be the biggest idiot in the world !! Con. grats.!!
You are an idiot!
Just a bunch of gun-happy goons breathing heavily (very very heavily) while waiting to hear from the Blackwater/XE or Omni to see if they can join the fracas as mercenaries anywhere, anytime for a fat wage with no accountability.
I know, we are all blood-thirsty killers with dollar-signs in our eyes; at least bin Laden is dead, or do you have a better suggestion for how we should have handled the situation?
I'm also a vet and would remind you that you're not the only one with an opinion, nor is yours any better than mine.
And it's not a question of me waking up, it's more a question of whether we're actually a nation of laws or just another law-breaking nation. What was meted out to Bin Laden was not "justice" it was murder pure and simple. For your information there is no such thing as a Global War on Terror, no matter how many times the phrase is repeated by war-loving critters. Wars are declared against nations not concepts; they have beginnings and ends, they even have rules. We don't declare wars against individuals or "concepts". War on Terror is pure bullshit! Bin Laden should have been brought to trial and convicted like any other criminal. There was no evidence against Bin Laden for 9/11 and he denied anything to do with it, although I'm sure he would have wanted to claim responsibility since he actively despises the United States, and even the FBI's Most Wanted List did not go after him for 9/11 and they damn sure would if they could.
Troll.
I get the impression you would fit in better over on the MSNBC forums…__I also get the impression you would have been happy if Bin laden was still alive, watching clips of himself on youtube. __a Nation of laws? lets break down your posts, Bin laden should be brought to trial, and we violated Pakistani soverignty. __if we had informed the Paki's that we requested Osama's presence at a future date, and asked them to serve a warrant on him what do you think would have happened? and, exactly, what would YOU have done?__you sicken me. your holier than thou attitude, spits on the the graves of the 3000, and all of those that have perished at the hands of the mad dogs you would allow to slink off into the night.__while I disagree with the degree at which we are playing world cop at times, or the methods sometimes, we are the only country with the balls or the ability to set right terrible injustices. In the abscence of Law, as you would have it, someone must take up the task. __From the inept joke that is the UN, to corrupt countries that pay lip service to bringing yo heel Terrorist groups they helped found, I defy you to find a solution that is any better than what has come to pass
Uh, you have just defied what everyone else believes as fact; please state your sources, and who you think really pulled off 9/11…..
I think Doubtom is one of thoser people who are smart enough to doubt the governmental BS being spewed ever since 9/11, with the maintenance of a permanent state of fear with constant bomb alerts, the lies about WMDs, the timing of this affair to boost Obama's numbers in opinion polls… And the facts he is mentioning are verifiable: the FBI never blamed Bin Laden for the 9/11 attacks,because as they stated, there was no credible, verifiable evidence that he was the mastermind behidn those attatcks… Also, several translators put into question the translation of the Bin Laden videos, stating that the language in the subs was manipulated… And there are all sorts of questions that are still unanswered regarding the 9/11… What Doubtcom and many others are doing is thinking FOR themselves, not just buying into everything the politicians state as fact! And we all know politicians are honest people…! LOL
We are still to see real proof of Bin Laden's demise, by the way… no videos, no photos, the body thrown conveniently at sea… So far, all we take for granted is the word of politicians and third party acounts…
Like Tom Cruise said in 'Jerry Maguire: ''Show me the money!'… It is strange that up until now, from 2001 till 2010, everyone, from govermenment officials to intelligence operators, had been stating that Bin Laden had been dead since December 2001! So, either the CIA, NSA, Military Intelligence, all screwed up for years…or there is more to this thing than meets the eye! And I find it very strange that 25 Seals killed 5 people, and only one guy shot against them, the courier that supposedly lead them to Bin Laden!
Not to mention the DNA tests, which usually take weeks, even months to be done, and here they did it in a few hours! And there is no chain of evidence: that DNA could have been from one of his many sons, from one of his daughters, from his dead sister even!
The fact remains that we saw supposedly three dead guys in very graphic images, but no Bin Laden and no son of Bin Laden! Why?!
There was supposedl a video, but conveniently enough, there is a 25 minute gap that virtually made it impossible to discern who was killed or what happened in that time lapse!
It is always interesting that usually the Teams and the government MO is so demanding, but when it comes to finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or getting Bin Laden, there are several occurrances that conveniently prevents us, the public, from seeing what really went on! The Seals cameras unexplained time lapse, the ludicrous allegations that there reason the photos of Bin Laden's corpse are not made public is for fear of radical insurgence… Well, Obama failed to realise that by making him a martyr, that is reason more than enough for those radicals to be jacked up! Capturing him alive, putting him on trial, humiliating him and even using him as a strategic weapon against the remainder of al-Qaeda, being him the most valuable source for privileged, first-hand iunsight into al-Qaeda's operational and ideological MO from the leader of that organization, also enabling Justice to be served, and not vengeance, by summarily executing in front of his family! That is not how the good guys operate, my fellow posters! We are a society of laws and Justice is not Vengeance! The US had a chance to prove they are the good guys and failed miserably! By killing Osama, they missed the opportunity to humiliate Bin Laden by submitting him to the Hague Tribunal, the Courts, and using him to either get insight into al-Qaeda or even using him to disenfranchise it by ordering them to stand down! This was a missed opportunity and every death from here on will be blamed to this irresponsible act of vengeance! And for the religious people out there, what did Christ say about 'an eye for an eye'? Gandhi said that 'an eye for an eye, and al the world will go blind!'
Regarding the lack of evidence that made the FBI not blame Bin Laden for the 9/11 attacks, that doesn't mean he was not to blame! But the presumption of innocence stated in our Laws is to protect the individual of abuse from governmental and judicial institutions… Every person has the right to prove their innocence, and I do mean EVERY person! The US has a system that enables that… So,what makes Bin Laden any different? Serial killers were convicted in a court of law, mass murderers, Timothy McVeigh included, so why not Bin Laden? Why did Obama give the order to kill him when he knew that Bin Laden would be so much more valuable alive?! BY making him a martyr, he may have stirred a nest of vipers! And that may prove to be very ill-advised!
How dare we kill people that are a threat to us?!?!?! (oh no wait we can't even decide who's a threat anymore; never mind) After all, we couldn't try the foreign terrorists as foreign terrorists, right?…..
Agreed! The terrorism is not a visible enemy, one we can point at! And if the US government is so vested in fighting Global TErrorism, then why doesn't the US get vested in Africa, in Palestine? Why don't they use the same MO against Lybian dictator Kaddafi, or Iran's Ahmadinejad, or North Korea's Kim Jong Il?!
The fact is that now that Bin Laden is dead, the US has no more reason to be in Afghanistan… And I am sure they will close that War on Terror chapter…You'll see…
And I find it strange that the only reason Bin Laden managed to undertake those attacks was because of the overall incompetence of every single entity in the US, from air traffic controllers to the intelligence community!
NORAD, CIA, NSA, FAA… the list goes on and on…
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
– Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
Tom, would you then argue that police trying to arrest a gang member have no right to defend themselves if during the course of the arrest the gang started shooting at the police? After all, the gang member that they are trying to apprehend has yet to be convicted.
Regarding the article on the new "green" ammo. Picatinny Arsenal is in Pennsylvania, not New Jersey How do I know? I was born and raised 18 miles north of Pittsburgh, and I know guns and ammunition. Both have come a long way since I started hunting in 1950. My newest is a 300 WSM. My oldest is a Winchester Model 70 FW in 30/06. I also have a 257 Weatherby Magnum .It's quite a weapon. I have owned an AK-47 (semi-auto) since 1993. My AR is a DPMS.with adjustable stock and 4X scope. I carried an M-2 carbine in Germany in the 1950's and an M-16 in Vietnam in 1969-70, 72-73. I was in the 196th LIB. Americal.I was never a REMF.I was a soldier, I am a soldier, I will always be a soldier.
Picatinney Arsenal is just outside of Dover NJ. Look it up.
The Picatinny Arsenal is an American military research and manufacturing facility located on a 6,400-acre (26 km2) lot in northern Morris County, New Jersey, United States.
http://www.pica.army.mil/PicatinnyPublic/index.as…
Hey guy ! was in Nam 12/68=12/69. M16 for 5 mn/ Double feeding/jamming !! Traded for M-79 ! Went off everytime I pulled da trigger !! 1st. inf. B 2/16 Rangers-Ambush battion ! BOB.
who cares as long as the mfers dead!!!!
It was a gun with a bullet in it that killed the S.O.B. and thats good enough for me.
It was a gun with a bullet by an American that killed that sob and that's good enough for me…..
fixed it…haha
looks like a lwrc m6a2 to me…
When are you guys going to wise up, I'm a Korean vet, but all you men or whatever you are . Your just plane ignorant . all what has been done ,some one is going to brag about what they know or found out by reading some other ding bats comment. …. what about the next important mission that needs to fullfilled, why inform anybody on the equipment used or what technique that can be used . a lot of variables are involved in any mission. And to complete them there has to be an element of surprise to achieve it . I can remember when I was a teenager during WW II . … A slogan, A slip of the lip can sink a ship. which you did when you guys had furlough or liberty and got drunk in a bar , either bragging about something or crying in your beer. Keep a clear head and shut your big fat bragging mouths. your screwing everything up for future operations or missions to accomplish.
SOME OF YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW THAT IT WAS THE CIA DIR WHO GAVE THE WORD TO SHOOT HIM.
Look folks, the fact that the unit that actually executed the mission to capture/kill OBL was a gross violation of OPSEC, and a blatent violation of security to the members' families, it seems a bit trivial to discuss the make/model of the weapon used. C'mon everyone – let it go and let's move on to more critical issues, like our own issues within our OWN borders! USAF Major MSC
If you so love to profess to love Americans, the very thing that makes us American, is our Constitutional rights. That document is what makes our country, and it is forms what our military is here for to protect. That said, Babel is correct in that if our powers that be decide that it is OK to kill who they perceive our enemies, violating the rule of law, they are no better than the dictators and despots we rail against.
lots of people talking.bad bad.
Here's some INTEL,The yellow box cutting knives that were used in the hijackings for 09/11/2001 were stolen
from 579 Massachusetts ave,Establishment Pearl Art and Craft,Cambridge,Massachusetts.There's alot about
all that,if you all are interested for more INTEL about the matter,you may contact me at countercrime3@aol.com
I never signed the SECRECY ACT,straight off the chain real INTEL,it's also what many dream of-ESPIONAGE-
The yellow box cutting knives were stolen over a three month period,OCT,NOV,DEC,year 2000,and everything
else I mention is going to be significant.Im alive because it's the nature of business.