A great shot of an Air Force PJ and his SEAL counterpart hauling a wounded Afghan trooper up a hillside after an engagement.

I assume this is a “white” SEAL, but can’t be sure. But you can see the emotion on the Afghan’s face in the background that things definitely went tits up during this op.

(Gouge: Scutrocity)

{ 43 comments… read them below or add one }

Slim August 2, 2011 at 9:12 am

"white" seal" so the F+++ what, what difference does it make if he's black or spanish, he's doing his job.


james August 2, 2011 at 9:21 am

are you refering to his skin color by saying "white" seal, or does using the word "white" refer to something else?


CavGuy02 August 2, 2011 at 9:33 am

"white" SOF vs "black" SOF. Come on guys! You know it doesn't matter what you look like, race, religion, etc!!


Stopcrying August 3, 2011 at 6:31 am

@CavGuy02…..YOU ARE AN IDIOT…..Just like Slim….Stop being wrapped around the "racial issue"….it has to do with the level of Tier that the team members are. So stop crying and playing the race card. I has nothing to do with race dummy!!!


ghsd August 2, 2011 at 9:37 am

i like how the guy on the left cut his sleeves off of his combat shirt. thats seems like a good idea


JimS August 2, 2011 at 9:42 am

Black as in Black Ops…..moron's


Mike Halvorsen August 2, 2011 at 9:42 am

These folks have definitely hit the proverbial "Bad Day At Flat Rock". Hope they make it home. And DAMN all about "white or black"!!!


PMI August 2, 2011 at 9:44 am

Umm guys… "white" = named Teams (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10 etc), "black" = DEVGRU,


zussmanistani August 2, 2011 at 9:50 am

I think he meant white as in 'not afghani'


clowe August 2, 2011 at 10:00 am

Seriously guys?…

"white" meaning non-Tier 1kinda thing….ugh…


Marcus August 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm

Why did the author make the comment? I think most people would have assumed it was a non-Tier 1 SEAL. The author didn't make the same distinction for the PJ. Does that mean he from the 24 STS? It's just a line the caused more confusion than clarity.


FormerSFMedic August 2, 2011 at 4:24 pm

Well Marcus, Christian mentions that he can't be sure. He is probably making an assumption based on a lot of different observations. When you have been around special operators for as long as he has, you start getting a feel for what to look for. I think he is probably right. As for the PJ not being mentioned, I don't think Christian was trying to insinuate he was Tier 1. It is extremely rare to see a 24th STS PJ in a picture, let alone fighting along side ANA, and Christian knows this. Training and fighting along side ANA is almost always tasked to the "regular" SOF units. While Tier 1 assets are generally tasked with more sensitive missions where cameras are not going to be. I hope that cleared up some of your confusion. Iam only expressing what some of us were thinking when we read the post, and not what the author has told me.


Panzerhund0311 August 3, 2011 at 6:38 am

@SF Medic….Dude, why don't you take over this website….It seems to me that you and a few other guys on here really know what they're talking about….So many MORONS on this site….Too many cry babies and the very missed informed. Thanks for keeping to the topics and correcting the idiots on this site. You are a true professional . I enjoy reading your comments.


Uncle Willie August 3, 2011 at 8:11 am

I'd laugh if it turns out FormerSFMedic is a foreign intelligence operative who spends his spare time making American military enthusiasts look stupid on the internet.

I'd laugh even harder if it turned out he'a really, really hi-speed Airsoft guy…

Marcus August 3, 2011 at 8:27 am

Not questioning the author's knowledge. It just seemed better to leave the line out as an editorial decision. Reminds me of that line about hearing hoofbeats and thinking horses, not zebras. I'd think a DEVGRU( or whatever they are called these days) operator would also be smart enough not to be caught on camera. The terms "white SOF" and "black SOF" are new to me. I've heard the terms "green ops" and "black ops".

Thanks for your response.


FormerSFMedic August 2, 2011 at 10:35 am

This pic brings back some memories.

As far as the "black" and "white" SOF. I thought this was pretty much common knowledge by now. Newsweek did a nice story on General Patraeus and covered the subject briefly a couple weeks ago. "White" refers to Army SF, Rangers, SEAL's, etc.. "Black" refers to DEVGRU, Delta, etc..


RANGER75 August 2, 2011 at 10:39 am

There are some "clueless" folks here, use some common sense guys…back on subject. This picture is very dramatic and shows the struggle of that the Afghan people are going through in order to make their country a better place for all…..God Speed, Keep up the Fight!!


Mountainlion August 2, 2011 at 11:14 am

Can someone please tell me what uniforms the PJ and SEAL are wearing? I don't recognize them. Thanks.


privatesec August 2, 2011 at 11:18 am

Facing the pic, the PJ is on the left and the SEAL is on the right.

On the plate-carrier of the PJ, it says PJ on the front (if you look closely).


FormerSFMedic August 2, 2011 at 12:10 pm

Well Mountainlion, I will try to answer that for you. As already mentioned, the PJ is on the Left and SEAL is on the right. The PJ appears to be wearing a Crye Precision Combat Shirt AC and Crye Combat Pants AC, both in OCP (multicam). The SEAL appears to be wearing the same setup however in the AOR-1 pattern, specific to the SEAL Teams.


Tw Itch August 3, 2011 at 10:12 am

ahhh how jealous I am (wish I could get some decent gear one day) … that Crye gear aint cheap. great picture though no doubt.
bit off topic here but I might as well just try to ask around while I can @ former18D and ranger75-
I'm talking with the Army to transfer over from the AF here soon and (god willing and devil planning) working on getting a 18B mos … any ideas> tips> or just some good forums to get my hands on so I can get a little more prepared for what is up ahead. pm me or post back with anything you might have gents.

hopefully in a year or so I'll be able to call myself an 18B!

thanks for the information!

twitch out!


Homer August 2, 2011 at 11:18 am

Is that a bit of Kryron paint I see on one guy's chest rig…? :)


baneofbill August 2, 2011 at 11:53 am

HAHAHAHAHA, of course.


Slim August 2, 2011 at 12:36 pm

Not being "in the community" of elite soldiers, being new to this site, and reading the term in the context that I saw it, it seemed strange to see the "white" in there. Now that I know there apparently is a difference within the elite, I hope any dirt I may have kicked up is now settled down. Apologies to the author


FormerSFMedic August 2, 2011 at 4:33 pm

While I can't speak for the author, I will say this. I don't think anyone is mad at you. However you must understand that we have had a lot of trolls visiting the site posting ridiculous comments. You can't blame us for thinking you might be one of them for a minute. As dedicated Kitup! readers, we are pretty protective of the content around here. I encourage you to stick around, I think you will find there is some great info to be learned around here.


mpower6428 August 2, 2011 at 2:07 pm

as too my previous comment, which has been deleted…. sorry. dont ban me or anything please.


Delta Rob August 2, 2011 at 3:18 pm

the first show of "One Man Army", the Delta guy was former PJ who lateraled to Delta.


James 37F August 3, 2011 at 1:58 am

The guys BDUs def look like ANASF or Commandos (which makes sense if the SEALs are there too). Def agree they don't look to happy about the outcome of the mission. Here's hoping both the casualties seen pull through


Keith August 3, 2011 at 3:11 pm

" Def agree they don't look to happy about the outcome of the mission "

Having taken casualties, it would be natural not to be happy but even so I don't know how you can make that judgement based on this image or the limited information that is presented.

As far as we know the mission was a smashing success

And as far as " the emotion on the Afghan’s face in the background " goes, to me, it appears that they are all simply trying to avoid rotor wash.


Tim August 3, 2011 at 4:53 am

If you look to the very left of the picture the PJ is armed with a SCAR with some type of optic. (specter DR?)


StopCrying August 3, 2011 at 6:28 am

@ Slim….YOU ARE AN IDIOT….Stop being wrapped around the "racial issue"….it has to do with the level of Tier that the team members are. So stop crying and playing the race card…


Kevin August 3, 2011 at 12:34 pm

Respectfully, as a long time Kit Up! follower (back in the old days of posts about duct tape and 550 cord uses) and not a member of the SOF community please bear with those of us who hear terms like "White" and "Black" and think of colors rathers than operation designators.
That being said everyone needs to cool it on the racism paranoia. Lets just assume that the authors here are not a bunch of neo-nazis.
I love the blog, Christain if you read this, you've done a bang up job dialing it in.


FormerSFMedic August 3, 2011 at 3:48 pm

@ Panzerhund0311- Thank you for the kind words. With that being said, I would love to contribute more to Kitup! someday, but I think Christian does a fantastic job running the show. None of us would be here if he wasn't putting out the best info. I just hope we can get rid of the trolls. It's been kinda bad lately, but it seems to have calmed down a little thanks to Christian.

@ Uncle Willie- LMAO! Those are some great theories! Not quite accurate though……:)


disgruntled August 4, 2011 at 3:59 am

theres a great book called Get Selected, try it out, im going out for MARSOC and this book is for army SF but in the end its all the same, i learned a lot, even being from the infantry field


Tw Itch August 4, 2011 at 4:26 am

roger that ill check it out for sure and see whats good


Payce August 4, 2011 at 4:09 am

Seems like the PJ has something around his helmet, I'm too lazy right now to look up all the Crye lids, but it does look like he's rockin a SCAR.


0326combatcontroller August 4, 2011 at 10:21 am

looks like on the PJ's helmet is a ach-arc system (advance combat helmet-accessory rail connection system) they are for mounting accessories like torches, other type of illuminators, and helmet cams. as well as other cool toys that can mount to a rail system. and they are designed to eliminate snags for jump duties and ps… it works. just in case you didnt know what the ach-arc system is, and if you already knew then you are squared away.


mNOR August 4, 2011 at 12:07 pm

I thought they pulled the 5.56 SCAR version out of service a while back? Or was that only Army?
Maybe the PJ's got to keep theirs.
maybe I'm wrong and the guy's rocking a SCAR-H….


0326combatcontroller August 4, 2011 at 6:05 pm

i was pondering that too. L or H SCAR? almost impossible to tell. the only SCARs i have seen with PJ's or other Combat Controllers is the big H. so i will say its the big H unless a super resolution pic shows otherwise between the two no question the heavy hitter. come to think of it i saw a PJ with a SCAR H with what seemed to be 14" barrel system. it looked compact and deadly. thats all my 2cents. Keep the PJ and Combat Controller pics and stories comin oh and the Recon Marine pics and stories too.


FormerSFMedic August 4, 2011 at 2:39 pm

Sorry it took awhile to get back to you on this, I've been unusually busy today. Anyway, I encourage you to check out professionalsoldiers.com. They will have alot of up to date info on Army SF history and training. They have a forum as well and you are welcome to join. The JFK Special Warfare Center and School official government website is also a good place to look. They will have course info and specs. As far as reading, there are numerous books, but my favorite is "Chosen Soldier" by **** Couch. This book goes behind the scenes of Selection and the Qcourse.

Good luck, and I hope you get the chance to try out. SF is the most adaptable and capable of all the SOF in my opinion. It's hard work but well worth it.


twitch August 5, 2011 at 10:02 am

no worries with the late reply but thanks boss!…. ill have to do some scanning on those sites and check some more reading…. i should be good but my biggest thigns for selection is i might have to get a waiver for my eyes (kinda bullshit deal but fimo) … been waiting to try out for way too long … well dont wanna get the whole main post too far off topic but appreciate it.


Tim August 5, 2011 at 1:48 pm

PJ has on what appears to be a MICH helmet with OPS-CORE rails. IMO


Super63 August 6, 2011 at 1:52 pm

I hope this Seal was not on that helicopter crash.


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