Kit Up! gets the low down on the finalists for the new Army camo scheme

Which did the US Army choose?

Now that the US Army has announced that they have narrowed down their pool of camouflage schemes for potential replacement of the ACU pattern, we know that Hyperstealth’s entry is among the finalists.  I dropped by ADS (who is partnered with Hyperstealth) today at the SHOT show to talk to Guy Cramer about his entry.  He showed me what he called Version B, which is 99% the same as Version A, which is one of the four patterns currently being looked at by the Army.  In other words, most of us probably wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.  Take a look:

Will the Army’s new camo look like this?

Also, don’t forget to check out my article about some new kit I spotted for HALO jumpers at the SHOT show.  Please hit the like button to share this with your friends.

Kit Up! contributor Jack Murphy is a former Ranger, Special Forces Soldier and is the author of the military thriller Reflexive Fire.

174 Comments on "Kit Up! gets the low down on the finalists for the new Army camo scheme"

  1. So these patterns are different enough from MARPAT to justify the development expense… how, exactly? It looks a lot like these patterns and is ready to field right now.

    Things were a lot easier a decade ago when the "we all have to look different" mentality hadn't kicked in yet.

  2. Looks MARPATy. What's the deal with this changing camo patterns all the time? I seriously don't get it. Multicam is good enough, as in, there's only so much a camo pattern can do for you.

    How does a digi-pattern perform against, say, german-bundeswehr-style "flecktarn" with its splotches and all? And how does one measure that?

  3. Isn't the Army going to invest in 3 seperate patterns for uniforms?

    Glad I'm getting out soon. I've already got tons of BDU, DCU, ACU, Multi Cam, gear/pouches/et al that my storage shed looks like an Army-Navy store!

  4. i think all of you are underestimating how much the army is willing to shell out to avoid admitting that it did something stupid.

  5. Imagine that – when I joined we had two types of uniform – BDU and DCU (BDU for home, DCU for deployments to middle east) – couple years later someone had a brilliant idea to switch to one, the almighty ACU – same uniform for home and deployment. Fast forward and Army re invents the wheel – ACU for home and MultiCam for deployments in Afghanistan. Now they are going to combine ACU pattern with MutliCam colors – Jeez – Five different uniforms within 10 years, not to mention the velcro.
    I am with you CavGuy02 – I have tough boxes on top of tough boxes of used uniforms, nylon gear and other stuff in all types of uniform patterns. I am glad that someplace, someone is getting rich – or lobbying to get rich on new type of uniform.

  6. Besides, when I was in Afghanistan my understanding was that MultiCam was for combat troops who actually left the wire and could blend in with the environment better when in the field, rest of the folks would remain wearing ACU – when I went back again almost all soldiers I saw in BAF were wearing MultiCam – regardless of job. Millions of dollars spent on uniform and gear to go with it for people who never leave 100 meter square between their hooch and their desk.

  7. SO many things to say but whats the point. This whole ordeal has been a big mess with millions spent, I just dont knwo what to say anymore.

  8. "Will the Army's new camo look like this?"
    I hope not.

  9. This looks pathetic for a entry by ADS/hyperstleath.
    I was looking for a more complex/better pattern from them….
    I hope this new army camo project isn't another failure. =/

    My hope lies with the Brookwood Companies.
    Hopefully they created a good pattern.

  10. Ugh, at least MARPAT/CADPAT/UCP looked decent, this stuff looks like a cheap rip-off; I understand trying to keep UCP for garrison, but fielding this crap?…..

  11. Still holding out hope for multicam (or their equivalent entry) or something similar to win… and looking forward to the unveiling of the other patterns as well.

    Also, surprised that A-tacs didn't get into the final mix.

    Murphy, you do good reporting… I hope you're doing some digging and will eventually (post SHOT madness) put out your analysis with some pics of the entries, and thoughts why some made the cut and some didn't…

  12. Watch, class A's are next….

  13. Jack,

    Any word if the Army is going to a standard color for ocie stuff? Like say the usmc coyote brown for equipment and pouches.

  14. Nice scoop kitup

  15. Oooh MARPAT with a drop shadow. Good to see that first-year graphic designers get to participate in this process. Weak.

    Reeeeally looking forward to a spy photo of the Crye entry. Everyone's aware that Crye's entry is *NOT* Multicam, right?

    The path from Crye's scorpion to Multicam to their closely-held ACIP entry, combined with Crye's continued r_evolution of military kit, makes them my last hope for retiring in a uniform half as effective as the one I was issued when I first enlisted.

  16. This is ridiculous…how about they make all branches of the military wear multicam and be done with it? these camo schemes are a waste of money and time.

  17. A bit of a nitpick but the camouflage pattern currently being used by the Army is called UCP (Universal Camouflage Pattern), ACU refers to the uniform itself and can be in any camo pattern.

    Back to the subject at hand. I like this new pattern, at least based on what I can tell from, what appears to be, cell phone pics. I like the dark shading next to each of the pixel blocks giving them more depth and dimension although I don't know enough about camouflage science to know whether or not this really helps or not.

  18. Why all the services don't just adopt the same camo is beyond me. It either works or it doesn't.

    It was that way at one point with the greenie BDUs in the 80's/90's…

    But I don't get the current thought process here. Rocks are rocks, trees are trees, and there's a good camo pattern or there ain't. The rocks and trees don't care if you're Army, AF, or Marine…and in a day where the acquisitions offices are under so much pressure to streamline and save $$ you'd think they'd all just get on one contract. I blame the CJCS and the individual staffs for f'ing this up year after year after year.

  19. Yuck looks horrible just do the right thing and force the Marines to shut up and adopt MARPAT and keep old woodland and Multicam for the transitional pattern!.

  20. blocky digital patterns are SOOOO last decade. spotty is the new black. oh and btw ITS WINTER, where are the rich browns or (god forbid) orange accents…?

    i am putting the US army on the list of people who will not dress me, along with my mother.

  21. Why's everyone dissing the design? It's a **** of a lot better and ACU. ACU would have had potential if the colors weren't light green. If the Army made 2 versions (dark green and tan) then they could have saved a lot of time and money. Anyways, I like it the design. Reminds me of CADPAT.

  22. I think that people are rightly frustrated and upset with the US Army's epic fail when it comes to camouflage patterns. ACU's are massive case of fraud, waste, and abuse right in all our faces and as far as I know, no one has been held accountable.

    Also, this topic is so subjective that we can all look at pictures on the internet of various camo schemes and argue our points until the sun explodes in a few hundred billion years, all without advancing any legit scientific evidence. I made mention of this when I reviewed PenCott's Badlands pattern. Although I liked it, you need serious scientific testing to determine the effectiveness of a pattern. Throwing around terms like, "stupid" or "looks like s**t" on the net doesn't really mean anything.

    I'm not in love with this pattern from Hyperstealth, I don't own stock in the company. I'm as frustrated as everyone else. My only point is, let's subject it to some hardcore objective testing along with the other patterns. May the best pattern win. No sense in getting bent out of shape because a commercial vender is offering a pattern that you or I don't necessarily care for.

  23. I believe the branch that copyrighted its pattern was the USMC. Go ahead and try to buy "genuine" MARPAT fabric on the open market.

    Analysis has revealed that the Army (PEO-Soldier, I believe) took MARPAT, removed the EGA, applied the "Urban Track" color scheme from the tests designed to find a pattern superior to WC and 3CDC, doubled up its minor color with a second hit of Sage Foliage, and submitted that. Some kind of star chamber selection committee hacked off (curiously, documentation was "misplaced") and UCP was foisted upon us.

    Far as service branding, that's here to stay. When the Navy cuts a few more uniforms out of its clothing bag there can be a discussion of the fiscal impact of branch-specific utility uniforms ;).

  24. UCP color on the Multicam scheme? Where'd that come from?

    And tough to do, given that Multicam has a 6 colors and UCP has 3.

  25. Uh, Class A's have been replaced by watered down dress blue disaster known as the ASU.

  26. This looks like it could be more effective than ACU's, but really? The Army already has MultiCam. What the crap. We have other expenses to consider for the DOD, like say, replacements for the F15, F16, and F18(C&D models). Or how about replacing the M16/M4? We have 40yr old tech that needs replacing, We have B-52's that my Dad flew in the 1960's still operational. And the Army is spending more money on camo, when the pattern they're fielding in Afghanistan is already purchased and better than what they had. I'm concerned, We spend the DOD's budget on UAV's, Stealth fighters, and camo we don't need. I understand that marines are different than soldiers, and sailors are different than airmen, and everybody is different than everyone else. Give us the same utilities and put different tapes on them, and be done with it. With the joint nature of war these days, everyone having different camo is dumb, naturally I'm gonna shoot the guy who looks different, regardless of whether he's important or not. The bad guys use intel too, and they know who wears what. Make it so no one stands out and everything is fine. Let your dress uniform show that your service is unique.

  27. I'm guessing you were honor guard or something. I had a SSgt who was honor guard and he had the same complaint. One thing I'm glad for about the ABU's is that I don't need to iron them, or get them pressed and starched. I put them on in the morning after picking them up off my floor, or off my bedpost where I put them the night before. My BDU's didn't cost me that much to wear, but a press job would last about a week, and then I'd have to do it again, and the amount of time I spent ironing them because I was too cheap to get them pressed was too much. I wish I could just have pin on rank though, sewing my stripes on new uniforms is a pain in the a**.

  28. Oh god, it looks as nasty as UCP.

  29. It doesn't really matter, the Army will end up doing something stupid, and you'll end up with soldiers wearing cheap knock-off multicam BDU's (probobly from Hyperstealth) under a basically UCP plate carrier. It's really sad that ATAC-S was eliminated but inevitable, kinda how the IC comp. will lead to nothing more than an M4 with ambi controlls. I think MARPAT is one of the best camos out there but even I will admit that multicam is a solid camo- the Army should just stick with it.

  30. Is it on the table that whichever pattern is adopted that corresponding nylon gear such as pouches, packs, etc also be printed in that pattern? Or will the uniforms themselves only be in the winning pattern, and all nylon stuff worn over them be in some solid color scheme such as khaki/coyote/dark earth? I think that is beyond the scope of this article but maybe an eye opener for future content/something to share!

    I am actually curious as to how they specifically test the effectiveness of each pattern at varying distances and in various times of day and environments.

  31. I mean for woodland and desert scheme use MARPAT or original woodland desert. Keep OEF multicam for the in-between camo.

  32. I believe it was just the competition to get a better camoflauge.

    The USMC simply came up with MARPAT.

    The Army's search for a better camo DID lead to the development of Multicam in the FIRST competition (which, imho is superior to MARPAT).

    No one held up a gun to whoever says the final say, and forced them to choose UCP. They HAD the option of Multicam, but chose the pattern with battleship grey.
    Now after properly fielding OCP, they want to go back instead of going with what works.

  33. Caleb,

    From the little bit that I have been reading, I believe that there will be three distinct patterns (woodland, desert/arid, transitional) and possibly a fourth pattern for OCIE (Organizational Clothing and Individual Equipment). There was also talk of updating the testing requirement to have the PPE for the next round be OCP, due to its current use and prevalence.

    I would surmise that the four patterns in the photo above are, from left to right: OCIE, Desert, Transitional, and Woodland.


  34. It's not a done deal – it's just one of those in the running.

  35. It will never end they have been doing this for many of decades.Yes they pick one now and swear this is it then down the road they change again.Want an investment that makes you money? get into the camo business for the military.

  36. Too bad Pencott didn't make the cut.

  37. Kilroy was here. Here am I.

  38. UCP looks decent? Why keep a uniform just for garrison? It's a waste of the government not to mention joe's money. Since joe is the one who has to spend most of it. Since our "clothing" allowance really covers what we need to buy yearly.

  39. What's the official reason for the USMC being so protective of MARPAT? I understand that having it licenced is probably a bit of a money-spinner for them, but what's the reasoning behind so adamantly denying it to the other services?

  40. I am Navy but live on a Marine Corps base. I see Marpat (desert & woodland) and all of the NWU variants every day. All of the uniforms, including the ACUs use the same digital pattern, but different colors. Yes, there are the USMC and Navy emblems embedded into the pattern, and AOR I is vertical, but they are all still the same. The digital pattern has been and is still in use by the DOD with more than one branch. If the DOD wanted to consolidate uniforms, they could. Too bad money and politics are the defining factors. Personally, I like A-TACS. It just blends in better overall at different ranges. The colors are earth tones. The pattern fades in and is not blocky. I cannot imagine why they got dropped from the current program. The lawsuit is obviously frivilous. The Pencott pattern seems good with the colors and the kind of dazzle areas. For current simplicity and smart use of resources, the Marines have it right. The coyote brown for gear and weapons is smart. The Marpat has a good blend of dark earth and green. It works very well. The simplest and fiscally responsable thing would be to adobt the Marine setup and maybe see if an arid scheme in the same pattern would be beneficial. Yes, the DOD can get around the copyright issue. The smartest thing to do for the warfighter is to do what the Army is doing now and opening up the competition to more submissions and to use scientific AND warfighter input all without political influence. Either way, the all branches need to be in the same uniform for financial and identification reasons. Another issue is does camo really matter that much for all of these macro and micro patterns? Bigger patterns are better at distance. Smaller patterns blend in to one solid color at distance. Should we just stick to olive drab and kacki? All of the uniforms get dirty and negate the smaller oatterns and colors most of the time anyway. In that split second, or at distance, how can someone pause to know who is who anymore? The end will tell and my guess is that it will be like always and will end up like any DOD program and be about adopting an inferior or incomplete product so that it can be continually "improved" to milk the money. I hope it works out though for the safety of all of our guys. Another issue is global copying or adoption. Allies are not always going to be allies. Why give them the same exact or too similar uniforms? Just my observations, thoughts, and questions all blobbed into one.

  41. Does anyone have the references for how and why ACUs, or UCP, whatever it is called was selected? I know it is a controversy. I just want to know how exactly it was chosen.

  42. JBAR, it's all about who gives the best kickbacks in cash money sad to say.

  43. some Army general somewhere got an outstanding retirement deal. too bad he didnt have just a little more self respect.

  44. I've never met a Marine who would begrudge corpsmen wearing the uniform, especially in combat. On the other hand the only time I've seen Navy personnel wearing MARPAT was at a briefing stateside. The Marine colonel sitting next to me wearing Service Cs was giving him a very hairy eyeball.

  45. I was military training instructor for 6 years. Yes every uniform I had was tailored. Call me a poofter to my face.

  46. the problem is the idea that the army can "save" money by developing their own pattern…

    There is no point in reinventing the wheel. Enough money has already been spent on camouflage uniforms. If the branches of the military wore a common uniform, then things will be a lot better logistically.

  47. Final aggravating factors to this saga is the Marine position which drove every service to invent their own patterns (and I’ve said enough on that) and that soldiers love to complain and are spoiled to a degree. Is UCP perfect? Heck no. Does it matter when you are coming out of the back of a 30 ton Bradley or in a close quarters urban fight where nothing but wearing concrete is going to make you look like a building? Heck no. Likewise in the mountains of Afghanistan where UCP DOES blend in but stands out like a neon sign among any green areas. Personally, I came from a time when camouflage was something you did not something you bought and I served in an Infantry BN that wore woodland BDUs as it fought the Tawalkana. Spray paint does wonders.

    Yep, UCP/ACU sucked. Soldiers complained to high heaven when the first BDUs came out. They were tougher than jeans and twice as hot. They had “Elvis” collars and were expensive. A SET of jungles was $8 in ’87 and Gen I BDUs were $60. And when Gen II came out a year later they fell apart as quickly as the ACUs did when they first hit the scene. So the latest round of complaints has a sense of déjà vu to me.

    The key difference was then you fixed the problem and drove on, there were bigger issues. Today some company invents the tactical sewing kit in its Kevlar carrier, charges you $40 and everyone goes “oooo, ahhhhh, tacticool”.

  48. True but like I said navy personnel working with marines or sometimes on a Marine base wear MARPAT uniforms. Regular Seebees and other navy ground units also wear M81 woodland.

  49. Jack – Look at the reasons those areas might be important. Think OUTSIDE of terror and Afghanistan, UCP/ACUs were not decided upon with an Iraq or Afghan 10 year war in mind. Send me an e-mail and I can discuss a little better vs. putting things out on the web that probably be.

    If one wants to learn why bad decisions were made it is better seerved putting oneself in the position of what was known BEFORE the decision was made. Hindsight is always 20/20.

    If the Rangers knew who was at Cisterna they would have never gone there.

  50. Same thing I heard from my contacts at PEO Soldier

  51. As an active duty Marine, I can honestly say that I DON'T CARE if the army wants to use the MARPAT pattern. The amount of time, effort and money that is wasted across ALL branches on uniforms is amazing. When we were leaving Manas from Afghanistan, me and my buddies were all amazed seeing the 101st checking in with brand new Multicam everything and throwing away heaps of ACU's in the middle of the floor. What a waste. Don't get me even started on our uniforms. I swear my daughter's barbie dolls don't have the amount of outfits that the Marine Corps has made me purchase and maintain.
    If sharing a cammo pattern helps save the tax payers some money and at the same time gets the hooahs out of those ridiculous ACU's, then so be it. Will there be Marines that whine and complain? Of course there will. But we are more than accustomed to not getting our way.

  52. So in what time-span will we we gone from the old BDUs/DCUs to ACU to Multicam to this new camo pattern being selected? Lets not forget the limited fielding of ACU-D.

    I thought Multicam was going to be the Army's new official pattern.

  53. Anyone complaining hoping the Army does not pick this pattern has not seen it in action. I heard the variant submitted is basically the same and in urban and desert environments it's the best they have seen. So this is basically what the article says but I am just backing it up and I am saying its probably the front runner for desert. I personally have used both Marpats and I personally like the woodland AOR2 for a desert environment like Afghanistan. Against the sand color mud walls in Afghanistan the woodland Marpat treacly looks good and takes on a lot sandier/light brownish color. I am wondering how the Navy's new aor2 will do because it is actually way off woodland Marpat. It's missing the brownish color and seems to only have green and black. I would love to see the marines let everyone have there Marpats, we are all on the same team and you can't beat it. Aor1 in urban is awesome also. The only thing I've seen better in a real city environment with paved roads and cement walkways is a new all dark grey uniform they debuted here a couple weeks ago . Save the money and put all USA military's in the 2 best patterns the Marines AOR1 and AOR2.

  54. ive heard some…. but none that impune the quality of the actual system. please dont tell me its "bad"…. or even less then optimal.

  55. Jack – one area (of many) I wholeheartedly agree with you is the silliness of one pattern for evrywhere. Anybody who's spent an appreciable time in the bush knows that is unrealistic. It's like one caliber or weapon for everthing.

  56. Kit Up! gets the low down on the finalists for the new Army camo scam!

  57. Branko Mijatovich | January 23, 2012 at 9:54 am | Reply

    …this reminds me of "digital camo" – well the history of camo on armor and vehicles from the '70s – that was applied to some tracked vehicles back during the "Cold War".

    The problem then was painting the squares on the side of your track, or spot painting – this all lead to the four five, then four, color camo we all came to love – except when painting/spot painting and there wasn't any brushes or paint tinner, just mogas and parts cleaning brushes… then came woodland camo.

    You know it doesn't matter what "we" the guys and gals on the ground think, it's the ones at Nantucket (sp) that need to justifiy their jobs….

  58. I don't know, I don't really think that Multicam is superior ot MARPAT, at least not in their specific environments. Remember, Multicam was designed as a compromise pattern that works well in most areas but will almost certainly lose out to area/environment specific patterns like MARPAT which comes in woodland and desert. So as a multi-environment/universal pattern, yes, Multicam works better than either MARPAT patterns but for either woodland or desert I'd argue that the two MARPATs work far better in their respective environments.

  59. I applaud your mature, professional and selflesss perspective, very common among the Marines I had the privlege of interacting or serving with.

  60. Looks a whole lot like MARPAT to me. Just another way the Army is trying to be like the Marines. The only real differenc I see is that the Eagle Globe and Anchor is not present. The only sailors I dont mind wearing MARPAT are our Corpsmen.

  61. Ok this is why the Government is so set on cutting military spending, there is absolutely no reason to change cammo schemes, the grey one used in Iraq and Afghanistan is just fine. It is a MAJOR waste of time and money to spend on a "DIFFERENT COLOR" really!! Stop wasting tax payer dollars!!

  62. I agree with SFC Hill it is atotal waste of funds especially since the force is soon to be reduced. The funds could be better used in providing the basics of military needs for supplies. The current issue is just fine and fits into any place the military would deploy the military without need for drastic changes. Just whos' pockets are the government puircgasing agency trying to line with gold?

  63. E-1 Zack US Army | January 25, 2012 at 12:11 am | Reply

    If they want to develop a new pattern they need to stay along the lines of the original MultiCam pattern, like the British did with their Multi Terrain Pattern, enough with the pixels already, the pictures Ive seen show me that MultiCam works stateside as well as Afghanistan, at least make it the standard garrison uniform and if we end up fighting in the snow they can develop one that suits that enivornment or any other terrain that MultiCam doesnt cover. One word for the Army, MULTICAM

  64. Perhaps those at the top of the Mil Food-chain could spend another bazillion $$$$ figuring out a way to make chameleon camo….then all the problems would be solved……desert, woodland, mountain, on-and-on. Has anyone considered that the rag-heads have been fighting US for ten years and the Ruskies for ten years in the same 'camo' [none]…..and they haven't been beaten yet ???? How many more millions in uniforms and technology [not to mention 'lives'] must be spent before the 'machine' makes enough money……yes, it's all about the almighty dollar. When will we ever learn????

  65. rice, i cannot disagree with you there. multicam is more universal that marpat, though the compelling reason to adopt it is that all countries in our national security strategy are located in temperate/semi-arid regions where a transitional pattern is necessary. I can see marpat being effective in the deep jungle, where the terrain is mostly dark green.

    I favor multicam because it has more brown and "earthy" colors in it. It goes back to a point I read about camouflage that most animals are brown and not green for a reason (except ones in the deep jungle).

  66. I would have been content with MARPAT being adopted by all branches of service when it first came out. Waste of money.

  67. It's so silly when Marines claim the Army is trying to be like them. Where Marines trying to be soldiers when they used Army uniforms or camoflage patterns over the last 60 years? Heck no.

    You have to be pretty self centered to ignore 60 years of history and cite ONE incident as evidence someone's copying you.

    Its one fight, one nation, enough of the "uniqueness".

  68. These patterns are too light in color. They'll standout in lush greens and may show up in moonlight. The reality is we need a common set of joint camo (woodland, desert) worn by all services so that the wearer's service can be identfied when operating together and to reduce friendly fire incidents owing to confusion between camo.

  69. I agree with xcalbr , with one important fact ! Our goverment pays for these uniform changes and issues them to the service member . Why can't all the branches of service were the same camoflage uniform with its branch logo sygnifying the branch of service ! Therefore saving a lot of money !

  70. Cant believe the military….those chosen to pick these uniforms must be
    CROSS-sighted. Now they have uniforms looking more and more like
    my kids PJs..ha (really) AIRBORNE

  71. Yeah, I remember the TERMs wearing even Tigerstripe when they could get away with it. After all, you never knew when a REMF might need to blend in at the' cafeteria – there might be a potato and steak attack!

  72. Multicam nuff said

  73. Now, imagine those of us who have been in since VietNam… How many uniform changes WE'VE seen. I need to retire before they put us in one-piece multicam with a draw-string around our neck.

  74. thomas thompson | January 25, 2012 at 4:30 pm | Reply

    I am retired but when I was on active duty we had only one uniform,bdu. If it was good enough then it should do for now. If you go to the px or bx now you see a dozen different uniforms. When I was in from the early 60's to the early 80's you weren't allowed off post in any form of fatigue uniform. Maybe if we worried less about uniform patterns we could concentrate more on pay and benefits. During the Vietnam era you never heard our dependents cry about having to go to the food bank or apply for food stamps,we took care of our dependents and lived off what we were paid,our wives worked if needed and that was the way of life in the military.

  75. William L Kendall | January 25, 2012 at 4:31 pm | Reply

    Kinda funny all of this talk so far. In over 20 years in the military, Army Special Forces and SOG projects I never found a uniform in combat that would stop a bullet. Color, material, etc. really doesn't make much different. It is all pretty and might blend with the area you might be deployed to or in but that little old lead round fired at you goes through all of those colors. When you return home under a draped American flag they don't say what uniform you were wearing. All of the talk about this is simply wasted time. The government will do what they want at the tax payers expens. Anyone disagree with this??

  76. Camouflage is secondary. Any camouflage is effective if the soldier uses proper movement and concealment technique. The military wastes more time and money on changing these camouflage patterns because it is about spending money not on improving battle uniforms. Most of the companies that produce the newest gear are retired officers fighting to get huge military contracts. It's really a scam.

  77. The idea is to control the availability of the pattern so that people wanting to do harm to our country, our people and our troops to make it hard for them to replicate our uniforms through copyright protections. Multi-Cam is already on the public market and there are already cases of individuals wearing mock US uniforms with intentions of doing harm or smuggle contraband in Multi-Cam and ACU.

  78. I'm afraid I have to agree with you SFC HILL. I just don't believe it warrants such an immense expenditure of both funds and manpower, to say noting about how much of a financial burden my soldiers are going to endure because of the squabble.

  79. The Army began using ACU's as a temporary uniform for Iraq and Afghanistan. Then they realized the the ACU's weren't logical for most Afghanistan situations and made the change to Multi-Cam for a temorary deployment uniform for Afghanistan. The search right now is for a more permanent uniform to take over for the BDU's from the pre-ACU era.

  80. Well said, Mr. Kendall. With the economy like it is, congress saving a dime so they can have another nickle on their paycheck, I don't understand why miilitary focus is on new material for an uniform. Are you going to increase the servicemember allowances to cover the new uniform. It is not worthy. Stop wasting our tax money and focus on something else far more important. As Mr. Kendall said, the uniform, no matter what pattern it is, will not stop a bullett.

  81. so they say…

  82. Michael D.Heffner | January 25, 2012 at 5:07 pm | Reply

    Ok, lets get this right, The army still HASN'T got a clue. They left BDU'S & DCU for one standard, The ACU!!!!! It Blew up in their faces, Now u still wanna go with sum computer generated pattern….. Wake us SMA & Chief of the Army. Ask your soliders on the ground, They tell you what works. Multicam is big with those i knw who worn them in OEF. It blends better than the other Crap your leaving us with. Also quit spending taxpayers money matching our field gear /OCIE to our uniform…. Follow the Marine Corps in this case, Make it one color that blends in Foilage green perhaps!!!!!!

  83. Can we pleaaaaaase go back to the BDU…it wasn't broken. I'm not sure why someone felt they had to fix it. You go to iraq you get issued an iraq design or go to Afghanistan you get issued an Afghanistan uniform….damn you go to Alaska get issued the Alaska scheme. Why the **** did we have to change our BDU. And then that ****** loud *** velcro. Apparently no one advised the great creators of our great uniforms about noise discipline.


  84. Glad to see that ADS is putting to good use the former Contract Officer that now works for them as a Vice President. The same one that signed the contract to ADS to provide the Army the GEN III cold weather equipment.

  85. in my opinion we the army for been my case. there should be,
    2 patterns: one for training field trainig, and this pattern well also
    be used for campaigns,cobat. in international conflict . psychologically the individual
    will be made to understand, physically and mentally , that the personality will change
    tours the mission at hand.
    the second pattern to be use in daily activities inside american bases, the soldiers soon will undestand, what is required from the use of each uniform. and for political and international relations, the use of the second pattern will show friendship ,with our friendly
    nations . and the first pattern will bring insecurity to does countries who are hostile tourds , the us and the free world ! thank you!

  86. I agree that the Marine camo would have worked nicely. If services have to have some distinction this could be done by changing the color and not the pattern design. The military wastes soo much money redoing things that didn't need done in the first place. Wish they would watch developments in sports and hunting equipment. If they had done this Gortex parkas would have been on line much sooner.

  87. A-TACS in my opinion would be the best camo for our nations military. You mite have seen it. But if you haven't yet look it up on google at

  88. Special Forces Survi | January 25, 2012 at 6:43 pm | Reply

    When I arrived in Viet Nam, JAN 66, soldiers wore OD fatigues with WHITE cloth nametapes. US Army tapes were BRIGHT YELLOW on black. My collar rank and jump wings were white. The 1st Cav Div patch was an oversize yellow patch with a black diagonal stripe and horse head. Most soldiers used a green Magic Marker to subdue the yellow and white. We have made some camouflage progress since then.

  89. There is a need for a better camo uniform, however, no one camo will be suitable for all enviroments and all seasons of the year. First, the military needs to look at the possible future theater of operations. Clearly, the Middle East desert and a jungle enviroment should be considered when it comes to patterns.

  90. My God man, why don't they just stick with the Multicam they're now issuing out for deployment to Afghanistan? It's perfect ._.

  91. And while we're at it we need to make a move to 6.8 ammo

  92. We've been talking for over 3 deployments and we the grunts etc, have decided to go with the reversible scheme, they can name it, one piece jumpsuit…Fire resistant, w/ nomex weave, or not, sew on capable, or not and flake off zippers! Back fit stretch straps w / Velcro grabs for a flattering fit. Plenty of pockets, tourniquet ready… No belts, less Velcro in the key places…You've seen them…The aviator flt suit, except with a few modifications, an eye towards long service life…Ever hear of aviators complain about that uniform? Except maybe in the can. Can our leadership live with formations in peace time all looking like pilots?? Is it cheaper, less pieces…
    Sanity and length…

  93. What's wrong with ATACS?

  94. I don't understand how the Army is choosing an all brownish camo pattern? Did they not learn anything from the STUUPID ACU pattern, god the waist of money…….GO TO the soldiers and see what they think is better, geez they gotta where it in the field! I think the Army waists more money on clothing than a weapon system for the future. Where are the greys, greens, browns, tans in digital? Face it the Army needs several patterns of camo for the world, one camo system is not going to do it. We need one for winter, desert and one regualr pattern for the states. C'mon commons sense!

  95. I'm not sure, but those characters/writing on the end of each roll of fabric doesn't look like English. Are we using fabric manufactured and printed outside of the USA?

  96. So lets change the pattern again? First I think that the ACU was a good idea how well it works well that is up for debate. The fact is that we can all say one works better than the other and all of us can think of at least a few instances that will support our view, but in the end it is not up to us. The Navy in their nice blue cammo. Personally if I was going to be on a ship in the water I would want to wear BRIGHT ORANGE WITH a personal identification beacon so that if I was every in the water I could be spotted from Space. A Marine that has a problem with Navy personel assigned to a Marine unit and they wear a uniform with and EGA needs to remember that he belongs to the Navy also and that guy is their to save his butt. (most of these would be the Coremen/Medics which the Marines do not have any that are not NAVY) For the Air Force well let them do their own thing with a uniform but they will soon change their uniforms to since they seem to follow whatever another branch does with uniforms. THe Army needs to pick one and then stay with it. Personally the ACU should probalby have a counter part for desert/moutain terrian. The idea that one type fits all is rediculous. Every branch has too many uniforms for there service members. Anyone holding onto outdated service uniforms needs to decomission them and be done with holding onto things that are worthless. I do not agree with selling them (unless it is to another service member) And I think that if it is a military uniform then it ought to be illegal for anyone that is not Authorized to wear that uniform to buy them or even have them.

  97. The BDU's were broke. I say this because somone somewhere decided that they needed to be pressed. Yes this made them look good in the states, but have you ever looked at a uniform that has ever been starched and pressed in IR boy does it light up like the Fourth of July. As for velcro I liked the fact that it was easy to change out patches when going to a new unit, but you are completly right NOISE DISCIPLINE. And they catch on everything. But on the other hand it does save on sewing cost. Everything is a trade off.

  98. I have to agree that the uniform will not stop a bullet well unless we coat them all in Kevlar but that will only stop so much and would make the uniform heavy. The thing to remember is that if you are harder to see you are harder to hit. I do however think that we could spend or money on better communication systems, weapon systems, or heck a million other things that would make our service men and women more effective in a combat situation as opposed to the time old question of what to wear this deployment.

  99. Seriously, it is insane this is an issue, once again. Lets see, pay & benefits may be cut & they are spending money on this?! How many uniform changes have we had in the last 20 years, don't get me started. You know in the end it is all military personnel who end up paying for this. Pay for food, rent, clothes for kids…, not so fast; have to keep up with the ever changing uniform. Come on people we are not gecko's! Oh yes don't forget the useful beret.

  100. Besides if they both wore them, all the couples would be dressed the same at the Marine Corps Ball! : )

  101. I have just a few points for folks to consider.
    1. Has "the powers that be" considered talking to seasoned bowhunters and turkey hunters? Get their opinions. To me they seem to be the masters of blending in with their surroundings.
    2. Have the costs to Soldiers been considered? Sure, there may be hook-and-loop name tapes, US Army tapes and rank, but everyone knows that names will still have to be sewn on the rucksack, the medium ruck, the assault pack and whatever else the units deem necessary.
    3. The boonie should be dropped from production. In three deployments to Afghanistan, I have yet to be allowed to wear it. The Army can save millions (possible exaggeration) by not making them anymore.
    4. The BDU. The DCU. "Chocolate Chips". The ACU. MultiCam. And now one more? How many more changes do we have to endure before someone makes up there mind and sticks with it?

  102. Folks get ready if we have a new sec. of Army or Defense we will need a new hat/baret or head gear also. Got to keep them in high places making the big bucks and every timr we change anything it is for a lot of money, but I remember when we could not afford enough body armour for our troops, but they got pretty new uniforms.

  103. I dunno. I got through 26 years with three iterations of uniforms…starched fatigues with unsubdued insignia, unstarched green fatigues with subdued insignia, and BDUs. They all kind of worked except, in retrospect, the starched fatigues with white nametags were pretty stupid. These days I follow Army affairs online. On sites like and you can't go three days without an article on new, revised, or updated camouflage for somebody's uniform. Camouflage has gone from rubbing some dirt on your face to a freaking industry. For chrissake, keep the pattern you got now or pick a new one and then go do something useful. At the nitpick level of microanalysis you've gotten yourselves into, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

  104. Do they have a gecko pattern. I think I would like that. All in all, camo should be designed to break up the human features, like arms, and legs, and ****** features. No manufacture can do that unless they have a ghillie suit. Hate to see how the brass will react to formations in that! Questioning the decisions made by superiors in a forum such as this will not get results. For the life of me, I cannot remember the place to contact for issues….anyone else? Embrace the suck and go with it. What choice do you have?

  105. These look so stupid! Ughhhh lol but I guess it isn't a fashion show and what ever husband safe I guess I love the camos they have now but whatever.

  106. Every one here has made a valid point unfortunately the Army seems **** bent on spending money for a new uniform when Multi-cam does work. Being a soldier my self I just want to see this done and over with. The military should be worrying about other things instead of this, such as fixing our procurement system that is so flawed it should be a crime. That being said I went over to the Ghostex website after checking out Hypersealth's web site and found that they have a pattern called Hotel 3 which by far the best camo I have seen. It is their take on Multi-Cam, there Delta 3 pattern doesn't look bad either. As for the Marines not wanting the Army to wear their uniform, look I get it they want to be different great, you can always tell a marine by their covers, isn't that enough last I checked we are all in the United States Uniformed Services we fight for the same team and the same team usually wears the same uniform so in my humble opinion we should all be wearing the same combat uniform. One team one fight right? Just saying

  107. I'm amazed at the comments made about the ACU's and different type camouflauge patterns being discussed for approval. Hooah but, has anyone thought about patterns needed for JUNGLE WAREFARE?…..everything mentioned in your discussion thus far is based on CONVENTIONAL WARFARE! Guys wake up.

  108. beefsmith, that only matters in garrison, and that used to be a lot easier when the standard uniform in garrison was the service uniform, unless you were doing physical labor such as fixing vehicles – and the fatigue uniform was the attire for such "fatigue details". The combat uniform was only worn for tactical operations.

    But it's a newer, kinder, more informal army now, what with everybody wearing the equivalent of blue jeans all the time and brigade change of commands where the general talks about Bob and Alan's performance and goals.

  109. That almost sums it up — just remember to include generals' and sergeant majors' egos as a fudge factor and you'll have the budget allowance for this pegged to the penny.

  110. Are you kidding me? Another Army uniform? Are we so incompetent that we can't figure out the right uniform and stick with it for a few decades? We just fielded the ACU 8 years ago, and now we're going to drop untold millions of dollars on a new uniform. Has any of our leaders looked at the budget crisis we're in right now? This is another classic example of Fraud, Waste, and Abuse. By the way, how did the black beret thing work out? No wonder we can't figure out how to win wars, we can't even choose the right uniform!

  111. Enough is enough. We should be spending our money on the best type(s) of camo for EACH environment. When one deploys there and go through CIF, you get what you need…PERIOD. MULTICAM can only go so far… Can those in a snow environment wear woodland camo? Not so much. The era of DCUs for desert wear was not bad. BDUs for woodland use, etc. Our money is being wasted on companies just for the simple fact of creating and maintaining jobs. However, by using various types, the military machine can continue to maintain jobs. And all in the food chain can save FACE by everyone getting what they want out of it, BUT the TROOPS will the most, as they will have the camo for the environment they're going to. Even if the environment has multiple types, they can be issued each type…and they'll be good-to-go. Enough said…

  112. What a waste of money. With all the talk we hear about the Defense Budget and our National Dept why wont someone stop this.

  113. All these complaints about changes, now I will have to buy the undate module for my Modern Warfare III so it is realistic. Us old timer are used to new uniforms over time. I think it's so we don't have to buy new ones. Lighten up you old fashionestas, it wil be alright in the pretty new uniforms

  114. The services did all wear the same field uniform until the Army got greedy. Marine Corps was buying it's uniforms from Army so Army could get an even better proce. Then the Chief of Staff of the Army, Gen Shinseki, decided to go into the haberdashery business and put a 40% markup on the uniforms they sold to the Marines. USMC realized they could have a much better uniform for less than what they had to pay Army so they developed MARPAT in two color schemes and still saved money over the old woodland. The Army's price went up when the size of their order went down.

  115. okay, here we go again, the Multicam pattern is most effective in all environments and it certainly beats the ACU pattern (generals, what were you thinking?). this new pattern is simply just a rehash of the marpart with larger pixels, the larger pixils will not let you blend into the environment as effectively as the smaller ones. Isn't that why we went from woodland anyway?…too large a color scheme/pattern? Now what is frightening is the idea that the US Army is going to develop a new pattern like the horendous ACU? come on and give us a break! There are many effective patterns out there that will suffice without the government scrrewing it up again..

  116. So hopefully, the Army will be smart enough to contract an American company in the U.S. to make these uniforms, and not contract it out to the Chinese, like the berets.

  117. Didn't we already learn that "digital" pattern camoflage wasn't all that effective. May fool a camera, but not the human eye.

  118. This is completely ridiculous. In the 60's when McNamara became SECDEF he streamlined all equipment used by the DOD…same weapons, boots, duty uniforms etc….saved $$$! The Army could have used the Marine Corps' research and simply removed the Globe! Wow…millions of $ saved. It doesnt take a genius. The reason this is happening is two-fold: 1) ACU's completely suck 2)Lobbyist really control what we wear in the military! The status quo has to change!

  119. What is wrong with the Army. Do they not understand we the tax payers are footing the bill for these changes? The economy is not doing that well if you have not noticed. Yes, we as a country should strive to give those defending us the best of the best, and I get that. But can we not accomplish our missions with what we have? I did 20 years and we improvised and did the best with what we had, **** we defeated the Soviet Union with what we had? And you know we did it by being ready, and down right impresive in our BDU's. Very few shots were fired, yes a few battles here and there. I look at soldiers now and I have nothing in common with them, **** they don't wear class A's any more, they don't wear glider caps (it would be totally politically incorrect to call them what they have been called for 50 years). I envy the Marines, they look the same as they did 60 years ago. They live up to their motto "always faithful". The Army motto should be "whatever is popular, new or whatever".

    Nuff Said, I am done now.

  120. All, DoD needs to set one camo pattern for all services and all services need to be in the process to ok what is selected. That would save money. The rest of the world does not need to know who is in what service and same goes for the services as they should have a handle on thier airman / soldiers / and saliors on who is who. If they want everone else to know they can determin the best way via a patch / head gear or whatever. There are a lot of joint environments that we all have worked for so one uniform works. Just my opinion.

  121. I agree slightly with Gerbil. The Russians lost because we supported the Afghans, and out spent them. You don't have to know a country's culture and language to win a war (look at Alexander the Great, Caesar, Attila the Hun, the list goes on). You need support from your politicians (not happening, media (not happening at all), public. Everyone calls it a war, the military considers it a peacekeeping mission and the ROE reflects that. If you send Soldiers to war and potentially die for their country, the only goal should be victory. Not political blah.

  122. I had my doubts about MARPAT when it first came out until I saw it in the field and it did blend in better than the 3 or 6 color desert. In all due respect though, is camouflage as important now as it used to be? A lot of the fighting is in urban areas so do we need a third or fourth pattern? After you've been out in the environment a day or so you uniform starts blending in anyway (those who've served know what I mean). With all the modern optics and the like out there even backwards people like the Taliban can find us. It has its uses for small ops like snipers or small SF teams but beyond that it is practically a moot point now. The biggest improvement to me when the Marines came out with the new cammies wasn't so much the pattern as it was the material and design of the uniform itself.

  123. So…….this is the desert camo. Are we using Multicams for wooded areas or will there be another color?

  124. Dude 27,

    The genius of our involvement in the Soviet Afghan War is that we did not out spend the Soviets. The operation had a shoe string budget at first and never came close to immense financial effort of the USSR. It was a text book insurgency operation. Further, as anyone who has fought with or against the Afghans should be able to tell you, they're quite creative (if unorthodox) with their tactics and their determination can be impressive.

    Secondly, (more relating to "gerbil's" comments) going to war is an expression of National Power in order to obtain a national interest. It is not in our national interest to kill everyone. I believe that the "wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan ended successfully months if not weeks after they began. It was our inability to communicate effectively with the people afterwards that has run us into trouble. Without a stated national interest, it makes it difficult to build an effective strategy.

  125. Another new $ ???.. As a person that has hunted in various (extremly hot to cold) climates, and retired after 20yrs of service.. I have found that no color pattern blends in perferctly… show some high quality pics at 10 to 300 yds. normal shot range. In training my personnel, I trained them to find the blob of color that is out of place…

  126. Complain complain complain guess what none of its going to change any thing suck it up and drive on! No matter how much you all cry about stuff you can not control it won’t change a thing so either you just like griping or you are ignorant. P.S. don’t bother being a hater on the truth I won’t be back on to even acknowledge the ignorance of it.

  127. hi im a Marine id like to buy some Military camo if i got any military money in my military account

  128. they talk about uniform changes and cutting the budget at the same time come on they don't have a clue.

  129. You just contradicted yourself in your response. You just said that winning isn't killing women and children yet you say "just nuke or gas the 7th century life." Who do you think lives there? Hello. This uniform pattern is a waist of money that could be spent a lot of better places. Oh and by the way guess what? when they finally come out with a new pattern we don't get issued it, we have to go buy it just like we did with the (ACU) Army Combat Uniform and the (ASU) Army Service Uniform

  130. lol and that's coming from a 91B, have you even left the wire, ummm nope, well it's over their past the dining facility.

  131. Really? Then it should be easy to attach officers names to companies. I'm listening…

    Criket… Criket… Criket…

  132. Sounds like a tall tale Ric. The Army might have asked sister services to recoup some development costs but I seriously doubt your version.

    As I recall the Commandant of the Marine Corps wanted a uniform to make his Marines stand out, that discussion had nothing to due with costs.

  133. Straps – It's not the UCP colors on multicam. Luke mentioned Multicam colors on ACU pattern. Which isn't tough to do. ACU is the cut of the uniform, UCP is the camo scheme, so you can/do have an ACU in Multicam.

  134. Crabby CW4 (ret)
    I spent almost thirty-nine years in the Army 1964-67, 1974- 2007 (active and reserve, Infantry and Intel), so you can imagine how many uniform changes I have seen. The best idea I have heard of lately is talking to hunters to see what actually works. The The big problem is the NIH (not invented here) factor. Fortunately I was retired before I had to buy any ACUs.

  135. MARPAT is not Marine Corps research. NATICK designed it for the Army and the Army thought grey was cooler looking. The Marines got another hand-me-down, only it was a really good one.

  136. Why force the USMC who has absolutely NO uniform issues to switch because every other branch jacks there choices up. It wasnt the Corps who started this….once again they made due with less and came out ahead

  137. easy fix, get rid of the unit patches….

  138. Woodie…is that you?
    I totally concur, and if this is you, we'd had this discussion several times, over beers and even in the Stan.
    Get this, the Navy has an even newer pattern now, looks like the ANA's pattern.


  139. "Wow…millions of $ saved"

    hahaha, try billions :)

    I believe that MARPAT was adopted in 2002, a full three years before UCP. The Marine Corps wanted the prestige and "elite" status of wearing their own unique uniform…thats it!

    Rumsfield should have pulled a McNamara…

  140. TravisMarine/Army | January 27, 2012 at 8:08 am | Reply

    I've had a 10 year taste of the Marines and a 6 year taste of the Army and have to say that the Marine corps has it right with the camo. Why not have all services use the same camo and have the branch over the right breast pocket. The enemy wouldn't be able to distinguish the difference. Why not look like a force of Marines in combat. Once we come home and put on the dress uniforms we know who's who. Most civilians cant tell the difference between a Marine and Soldier anyway.

  141. TravisMarine/Army | January 27, 2012 at 8:09 am | Reply

    Belay my last. Left breast pocket.

  142. yeah, just like the NRA knife I got one year, with a MADE in China stam on the blade

  143. Well The President and SecDef stated we were going to draw down the ground forces (i guess those drones will do our fighting), and concetrate on Asia. With that said, I agree with Parasniper's comment above. What about a jungle uniform? So my guess is that after millions are spent on a brand new uniform for the Army, another jungle design will be issued (when the next war we fight in Asia starts) for "in country use" only. Well, maybe they can save some money and just use the Airforce "Tiger Stripe" uniform. ****, the vietcong fought with PJ's. Let's save money and buy from them. Just go to Wally World and you'll find made in China or Virtnam for cheap!

  144. Somehow the word "Camo" just sounds silly…I used to use Camay soap when I was a kid, maybe that's, and Cameos are pretty pieces of jewelry..and movie star walk-ons..

    BDU sounds more authoritative…Battle Dress Uniform…but if 'we' need to be less aggressive sounding, i.e. "politically correct"…perhaps FDU might work: Field Deception Uniform.. (*.*)

    Life gets 'tee-jus' don' it?

  145. All these look like crap. What our boys are wearing in OEF is clearly the best why is the Army so stubborn on admitting it.

  146. agree with jimmy, MARINES hve a patent on it… even tho i was n the ARMY, n woodnt like seein nothing betta, MARINES r sharper lookn…!

  147. Being someone in active duty service, the Branch of the military you enlist in makes a huge difference, and also working in a joint command the different uniforms make it easy to know who youre talking to at first glance. You will NEVER get this type of thing any where else! By knowing which service they are from, you know what type of basic training they go through, what their mentality behind their actions or language can indicate, by their insignias you can tell their rank and even where they have been and even Service achievements they have.
    That being said, I'm all for the Army to change their uniforms if they so wish, but its great as it is. They're the only service that really got it right as far as comfort, durability, ease to maintain and such. The Navy Working Uniform, while desperately needed (yay no more janitor uniforms… :P), is a heavy material, fades rather quickly even when washing with delicates, changing any insignia has to be a planned out event unless you're lucky enough to own a sewing machine, and the buttons fell off all the time until you yourself reenforced em. Air force Uniform is much the same, but a little more practical, less buttons, a little lighter material and pens pockets (hallelujah! I'm jealous…). I can't speak for the Marines Uniforms, but they appear to be similar in structure to the NWU except obviously a different color and pocket placements. The only thing the Air Force really should have worried about is perhaps the covers. I think the Berets look like a sad, flopped over, bagpipers hat. Even though I understand the reasoning behind having them and the tradition and all that… i hear its rather scratchy, and hard to maintain a good "shape" on it…

  148. i like it. now here is the big question, velcro? does it still have any?

  149. That doesn't look like it will work NEARLY as well as the current OCP does at least in Afghanistan. When a Soldier lies up next to a rock and/or some trees at least from what I've seen, from a distance he is nearly invisible. Keep the OCP and use it for garrison too. We've already spent the treasure on the research and have found something that works. We don't need to spend more on yet another uniform not to mention the equipment that will go along with it ie. body armor, "kit" materials like pouches of various types, etc.

  150. All military personnel in each branch should just be issued a pair of socks with the label "accessories optional." then wearing clothes is really left up to the user, and the camouflaging nature of skin isn't exactly subpar. freedom! yea!

  151. Can't we just keep the multicam . . .

  152. I don't understand why we can't just keep the multicam . . . I just got back from Afghanistan and it worked great wooded areas, desert and mountians . . . not only that it doesn't look horrible

  153. Really? The Marine Corp doesn't get to patent anything. It is a Natick DOD design. DOD and the United States Government owns all patents.

  154. because unifying the US military is more important than dealing with individual uniforms. It is logistically practical to produce the same camo, equipment, and other items than different ones, not to mention less expensive.

  155. Hahahahah, purty funny. NRA protecting you american gun rights… And having Chinese stamps on our products. Good ole America

  156. I liked UPC, not as camo but the gray looked sharp.

  157. Perhaps it's worth noting that all this brouhaha seems more centered around folks' sense of what "looks right" as a uniform.

    I may have missed it, but I have yet to see any comment acknowledge that the uniform is a relatively trivial component in the fieldcraft of concealment. Remember, the basiscs cost almost nothing to train: stillness versus movement, shadow versus light, quiet versus voices and noisy gear (by the way, have the idiots who approved velcro closures on ammo pouches been fired yet?), dull versus shiny (am I the only one to get logical whiplash trying to understand the need for IR-suppressing dyes being pushed by the same folks issuing IR-reflective flag patches?), et seq.

  158. MARPAT was based off the Canadian CADPAT that Defence Research and Development Canada came up with. We were wearing trial patterns in the early 90's with the first full official issue on the CF Helmet covers in 1996.

    NATICK was the first to test digital pattern camo Dual-Tex but was dropped because they could not convince that the digital pattern was actual a more effective pattern then the previous woodland pattern

  159. I'm Army so I don't know much about about other services, but my wife is Navy and she wears NWU's. I'm not sure of the technical name for it but it's the blue digital pattern. That's all I've seen around the Hampton-Norfolk area.

  160. >it does save on sewing cost

    Not really. They add about $10 to the cost of each uniform (and who knows how much to each patch), versus less than $3 for a reusable sewing kit.

  161. thay should like wear the red tiger camo it looked cool in all the call of duty games


  163. Stryker Perry | March 6, 2012 at 12:39 pm | Reply

    I think they all should use 3 camo patterns

    A-Tacs (desert colored)
    A-Tacs FG ( woodland pattern)
    Multicam (for mixed terrains like afghanistan)

  164. Stryker Perry | March 6, 2012 at 12:43 pm | Reply

    and for the dress uniforms go back to the older style Army greens for the army
    and the rest have kept their own still as far as ive seen

    and get rid of the berets leave those for the french and british they are uncomfortable ugly and useless use patrol caps and boonie hats and get rid of ACU cant hide anywhere with them

  165. Darius(DumbAss)137 Do some research before you run your suck-hole,Armour is right, USMC worked with Canada to develop and got their Permission to use the Canadian pattern (CADPAT) and called it Marine Pattern(MARPAT). Besides the current Army pattern looks dirty not "cooler". The Army didn't Have anything to do with it.

  166. The blue ASU A looks good and they are sharp (been around since 1937). Add a dark blue sew on waist belt with belt loop with open face buckle (simular to the pinks and greens that officers wore in WW2). Would sharpenthe blue up a bit. Bring back the Vietnam era Khakis as the ASU B. The ASU B isn't that bad, just not sold on the white shirt just yet. The Greens, they can fly in to the dust bin of history right along side of the olive drabe Ike Jackets, dress whites and the nast puke green 1976 Class B shirts.

  167. Bobby Bowman | June 1, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Reply

    I like the new pattern of camo,but I think that the other branches of the military should have the same patterns as well to show that we are a nation united.

  168. Echo5Charlie | June 2, 2012 at 7:00 am | Reply

    Looks almost exactly like my MARPAT uniform, the only differences I really see is slight color variations. The 2 on the left although they are different shades look to have the same pattern. In my opinion its just the Army trying to blow some pocket change with their huge budget.

    Jeff the Baptist- I agree that the only other people that should wear MARPAT are our attatched Navy Corpsmen. They go through all the same training and deployments we do and by all rights have pretty much are Honorary Marines.

  169. ******! about time they get ride of the ugly UC's. im leaving oct for basic then RASP! Hopefully we gt the far left kind! Caant wait to see em when i get in

  170. Small patterns blob out at short distances, if when you blob out and are either too dark or too light you stand out from your back ground. The bigger the object the bigger the pattern and the greater the range before it blobs out. This is important in low tech conditions but with various types of of high tech gear such as thermal detection, IFF drones etc. meeting a modern army in combat is a whole new ball game. Concealment helps but cover stops bullets.

  171. To everyone talking about it being a huge waste of time to switch over to uniforms.

    UCP has been shown to be fairly substandard. Now, true, if there was going to be years of peace following this, it makes no sense to switch to a new pattern. The fact that the army is aggressively trying to determine a new pattern, and the fact that cost of implementation is an issue (because, if they buy it, they'll issue it over the course of 12 mos. rather than 2-3 years) should tell you what the army believes the chances of a sustained peace is.

    Let the Marines talk ****. When you put the pattern against MARPAT or CADPAT the pattern clearly isn't similar. The only similarity is the fact that it's digital.

  172. Why can't they jus pick a uniform and stick with it, and who are the people who pick out uniforms? Are they civilians? As a soldier who wears a uniform everyday, I know that the person who thought of the multi-cam or acu is not someone who wears it day in and day out, and on deployments for a year cause my uniforms don't even last 2 months out here. And they never realized that it gets to be over 120 degrees over seas. I think that they should take a more durable material and take some of the good aspects of other branches and consolidate it so that we look clean, sharp, combat ready and have a unifrom that lasts longer than 2 months with the thought in mind to be able to roll up sleeves like other branches do. I like the way that the BDU's usedc to look! I like being able to say that I serve our country and that I fight for our freedoms, I jus wish that my uniform were to say it too. Rather than looking like I am wearing pajamas. But I guess that just my opinion.

  173. Who cares about the patterns and how they are similar think about the person wearing it!!!!!

  174. Marpat has been proven completely superior to everything except multicam, which it is simply much better than. only in the most specific of environments + Season + lightings do multicams come close. example, desert marpat is better than multicam in the desert, but fails in woodland setting, woodland marpat is better then multicam except in desert. and multicam is the best outside of marpat…Both UCP, ABU and most of the other camos are simply useless in comparison to either….

    that said, i'd like the multicams to come out in 3 pattern, warm woodland, desert, and snowy woodland then it could compete against marpat.

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