Digital round count: it's finally here!
Another cool sighting from the SHOT show: A digital round counter that illuminates when you grip the pistol. What do you think? Is this a useful tool that will help soldiers or police officers in combat and training, or is it a distraction that is bound to get someone hurt? Maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle, but I’d like to hear your thoughts. To get a better idea of how it works, check out the video below:
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Kit Up! contributor Jack Murphy is a former Ranger, Special Forces Soldier and is the author of the military thriller Reflexive Fire. He is also an editor for all things involving Army Special Operations at SOFREP.com
{ 40 comments… read them below or add one }
For what it’s worth, I think this is the way of the future. Devices like this pave the way for integration into weapon designs in the next decade or so. There just isn’t a downside to knowing EXACTLY what’s in your weapon.
Besides, who wouldn’t want the pulse rifle from Aliens?
I think it would be a distraction & becoming too dependent on technology such as this is sure to lead to problems when it breaks &/or malfunctions, say when your in it up to your eyeballs & it indicates there are more rounds than it really has, would be REALLY F’D up. don’t get me wrong, electronic gizmos are really cool, but I’d be really hesitant to trust something like this with my life.
just my $.02
to err is human, to really f*ck things up requires a computer!
Exactly. The KISS principle still lives on. For the same reason that a loaded chamber indicator seems superfluous to me, a readable round counter seems like an attempt to shortcut around training and skills. I suppose at some point these will be reliable and small enough to be worth the trouble, but I’m willing to bet they are not yet.
Though what I mentioned in the M4 thread about using a similar device to keep track of rounds through a gun for scheduled maintenance still seems like a good idea.
And Mark M beat me to it below this post.
As a 1Gen setup, it’s bulky. Moving to the next, it will be integrated into a grip laser with a more minimal display – and actually fit current holsters. Since the addition of Docter type sights on slides, having it do a heads up reflection in one corner of the screen will work, too, nothing extra adding bulk to the width.
It doesn’t have to be a knock sensor, either – a simple spring loaded switch that takes full power cycling to activate and add 1 round to the count. Then it becomes adjustable for other weapons, too.
The display should go red digit within a few rounds of empty, and there’s going to be discussion on count up or count down, total round count access, etc. Once proven to reliably record rounds on the standard M4 beater – and Basic will be a great test bed – it will likely sprout on many service weapons in constant use across DOD. THEN we can get PMCS done right – replacing extractors before they fail, bolts, action springs, etc.
It looks like it wouldn’t impede holstering in most modern tactical holsters anyway. I think it’s pretty cool.
I’ve never fired a handgun on a two way pistol range, but I have lost count of my rounds fired enough times that I’d find it pretty useful.
I looked at this thing last week and have already formed opinion. The Speed Shot is absolutely useless! Look at where the module is at. It’s placed in the spot where your hand is supposed to be! So with this thing shooters are supposed to somehow maintain a good grip while trying to pay attention to it under stress! Ridiculous! I’m guessing the Speed Shot is pretty painful to use.
Crap like this CAN’T make up for good training. These are the kinds of products that **** me off. The idea is sound, this product is not! If anyone wants to discuss it with me I would gladly go into more detail about how much I hate this thing.
FormerSFMedic: We have become very dependent on digital technology. Look at the standard M4 and see how much electronics it has. You don’t see many M4/M16 without an electronic sight. ( I remember my M16A2 and having to learn using Iron sights). Training is a must. As for this product, I don’t think you need this on a Handgun. Average capacity is what? 15 Rds? Less if you are using .40 or .45 Cal. (I know….Glock 18 with 33rd? ) I see this a more of a rifle application and it they can integrated right into the rifle’s receiver would be optimal then being attached.
Go Navy clear magazines or mags with windows (like certain p mags) provide a much simpler way of doing this on rifles. On a pistol I think if you have the time to check that little indicator you have the time to perform a tac reload which you should probably do anyway. SF Medic I am with you I don’t see any situation where this would be helpful though it would be cool to have a device that could tell how many rounds were fired through a rifle over its lifetime this would make maintenance and parts replacement easier.
They need some help. The big “ah hah” is the digital embedded lifetime round counter for all weps….. -BW
Something like this would be perfect right above the forward assist on my black rifle. Like USMC said, there’s nothing negative about being able to stay on target and be able to quickly glance down and know where I’m at with the magazine.
Build it, ship it, we’ll buy it.
What about us lefty’s
Check out the video at the 1:29 mark. There is an ammo counter right below the sight on that G36. (pretty sure it’s a G36.)
That’s perfect placement, in my opinion. It also addresses the lefty shooters among us.
@SFMedic: I’ll definitely agree with you on the placement. Until that system is trimmed down it really doesn’t seem effective for sidearms. It’s application on rifles, however, seems pretty solid.
I agree, I think where that is on the G36 is perfect. Though IMO this kind of thing is always going to be awkward when it’s a retrofit to an existing weapons system- to be truly seamless it needs to be a ground-up design, and that could definitely include a lifetime round count like Brandon said. Call me when I can pick up my MA-5B!
Looks like it interferes with being able to get a high tang grip on the weapon.
On a pistol? It’s a bit frivolous to me: the bulk, weight, and distraction are too much for the platform. On an AR? I think it’s got some traction. Though I secretly still harbor warm feelings for iron sights, I suspect a counter will someday be integrated nicely and it will be a good thing, but it’s not there yet.
??????? Never the need for one. So all i can say is i hope to see somebody at the range who has one and find out the deal.
counting or registering too slow but i like the idea alot
Looks cool but counters are more for maintenance than combat. Many attempts in the past to have round counters shown little use in combat. However looks cool and fits most widely used handguns and even a G-36. Wish they im port semiauto G-36s.
Call me once we invent Han Solo’s DL-44 blaster. I see how this could help if you’re on the range just shooting for fun but otherwise isn’t really practical. Maybe in the next 10 years it will be developed further.
Always remember: Han shot first, Guido was too slow.
uh. . .that’s GREEDO. . .
He was Italian, right? I’m Italian… I should know.
Seems a little silly… the central technology could be useful, but the display seems awkward to me.
In a few years, I imagine soldiers are going to have heads up displays that do this sort of thing for them anyway. Except they’ll probably include a lot more info, like total rounds remaining (or any weapon they use, including mounted weapons), directional location of gunfire, integration with gun sights, satellite and drone feed, maps, camera feeds…
It will basically be like a video game.
Combat is NOTHING LIKE a game, and won’t be as long as combat leaders have the sacred responsibility to get their noobs home safe.
I didn’t say it was. Simply that it would make tactical sense to give soldiers the same information that is given to people playing in video games, in a similar fashion.
The information the soldier of the future will see through his HUD (whether projected onto regular glasses, into an eye piece, or into his brain, who knows, will probably end up looking very similar to the information that gamers have been getting for years.
Early adopters have at it.
When my ammo status appears on the same bluetooth-coupled display as the targeting reticle projected onto my FL/IR Level IV Ballistic coolguy glasses it will be a valuable piece of information. Until then, notsomuch. ESPECIALLY on a pistol. Fire, move to cover, top off (dump empties, pocket half-full mags), continue OODA. For what this would cost to implement in most entities you could buy a LOT of ammo (or plus up EST/FATS facilities). And maybe the Army could buy some decent holsters.
That this thing is mounted on an M9/92 should betray the target audience. I despise that gun and the thinking behind pretty much everything about it.
On a rifle, rounds expended/rounds remaining could be useful information, but that’s already being worked (to include bluetooth ranging and targeting).
I shoot USPSA and IDPA, and believe me. I know my round count at all times! By the time I looked at this thing, I could have reloaded already…no thanks on the pistols.
Rifles, perhaps makes more sense, especially on a large drum mag or something…
It would really rock if they could integrate the display into a HUD / eyewear!
I think that this is the way of the future of firearms technology, however it does concern me some. We all know pvt. snuffy is as lazy as he is foolish, it would not surprise me one bit for snuffy to see zero on the digital display and neglect to properly clear his weapon and before you know it we have an ND and someone ends up dead. Reliance on technology to do simple tasks makes soldiers sloppy.
This is the way of the future. Just like electronic components into cars…..I’m not a fan of the system as is and am currently working with them to see if I can consult to make some serious improvements. The CEO Miguel is a great guy and they care about the consumers…or else I would take a pass at helping them out. -Brandon
Pretty much all been said. Personally I think its a tad bulky.
Training is all important and a little GI ingenuity goes a long way. Make the last 3-5 rounds tracer in your rifle goes a long way and if you train enough you can tell more often than not when the bolt locks back in your rifle.
How do you rezero the counter?
I think if you based the system on sensor that reads pressure from the top round or follower, you could make a system that approximates the rounds in the magazine based on pressure, a timer, and a logic circuit / computer.
Release of pressure and restoration of pressure over ~0.2 seconds apart (too slow to be a round cycling, but faster than any reload humanly possible) with 0 rounds fired = +1 loading. Pressure indicates a partially filled magazine has been inserted. Result = X rounds remaining.
For being extra accurate when indicating 0 rounds remaining, a circuit that passes current through the rounds in the magazine, but not through a non-conductive follower (or when there is no magazine inserted) could easily tell the computer when to zero the display.
Or we can just count…
Would be useless on my pistols. I can count to 7 in my sleep. If it’s not a M1911 it’s in 2nd place already.
My .02 worth from a very old f***.
1911′s come with capacities between 5 to 28 rounds, bro.
Generally speaking if you are using a pistol in a fight where you need to count ammo, something is gone very, very wrong.
bbb,
Other than having a few unnoticable tricks done for accuracy and a Bomar rear sight, mine is pretty much kept as John M. Browning designed it, as Remington Rand made it, and my favorite uncle taught me how to use it.
It has been my experience that when you have to use any weapon, the magazine capacity is never great enough. While 20 rounds in a M14 or M16, and 7 in a 1911, wasn’t always enough, it proved to be adequate for the purpose.
It always boils down to your shooting skills regardless of the weapons platform.
Thats why I love my P14, 15 rounds .45 total!
for someone who had trained with it I don’t think it would be a distraction ,but even then I wouldn’t want to become totally dependent on it just incase it did malfunction.
Your right, it wouldn’t be a distraction. It wouldn’t be a distraction because it would be very unlikely for the end user to be able to focus on it at all under stress. Under stress, it’s hard to focus on anything other than the threat in front of you, including the sights on your handgun. So what makes us think that this will be any different?
I don’t believe it would be a positive and could even be a negative. It’s going to take the persons eyes away from the threat/target for a couple of seconds especially if the user starts depending on it.
If you’ve been shooting a long time you have a pretty good idea where you are ammo wise. Something else to break and get in the way.
That’s just my view—-
From a competitive shooter’s point of view: this is ABSOLUTELY USELESS. The claim it will make you a more accurate and faster shooter is an absolute LIE. Tactically, if you are unsure of how many rounds you have fired; just reload. You should always have as least 1 or more reloads on you, but you should know where you are at, anyways.
Just my 2 bits….