MultiCam for Everyone?

I posted a story on Military.com earlier today that talks about the Army’s plan to recommend that MultiCam become the service’s new camouflage pattern.

Officials running the camouflage effort are now looking at two options to recommend to the service’s senior leadership this fall.

One option would be to make MultiCam the Army’s official camouflage pattern, sources tell Military.com. The second option would be to make MultiCam the service’s pattern for garrison and general deployment use, but also to have a family of approved camouflage patterns that could be issued for specific areas of the world.

 It’s strange that Army uniform officials would develop these two courses of action when they are still evaluating the four finalists selected from Phase IV of the camouflage effort. But it’s not really surprising when you look at the allegations being raised about how the Army selected its Universal Camouflage Pattern.

Earlier this week, UCP came under fire again in a story by The Daily, an online news site, which quoted several Army scientists from Natick Soldier Systems Center, Mass., alleging that the Army selected UCP long before testing was complete.

I have covered Army camouflage efforts since before the UCP was adopted in 2004, and this is the first time Natick officials have come out on the record criticizing Army uniform officials and the Brass for jumping too quickly on the UCP decision before all the facts were in. Apparently senior leaders at Natick are livid over the statements made by their engineers, but I say they all deserve a medal for having the guts to say what everyone has known for a long time.

There are a lot of opinions out there about how much the UCP decision has been overblown in the mainstream media and on the blogosphere. Well, here are a few facts to consider:

— The leadership at Program Executive Office Soldier chose UCP over the Scorpion pattern, which was developed by Crye Precision for Natick and was very similar to MultiCam.

— Since then, MultiCam has outperformed the UCP in three separate Army studies. Two of the studies came out of Natick — one was completed in 2009 and the other in 2006. MultiCam emerged as the clear winner over UCP and other patterns in late 2009 as a result of PEO Soldier’s Phase III effort to find better pattern for Afghanistan.

— The Army has invested a lot of money fielding UCP-patterned uniforms, body armor, packs, pouches and other gear to every deploying soldier between 2004 and 2010. Now the Army has to pay for MultiCam uniforms and equipment for Afghanistan and UCP for everyone else.

Now to be fair, no pattern lasts forever. The woodland pattern on the BDU lasted 20 years. It appears that UCP is on its way out. It would be interesting to see how long it would have lasted if it was as effective as MultiCam or the Marine Corps digital patterns.

 

About the Author

Matthew Cox
Matthew Cox has been a defense reporter since 1998 and is an associate editor for Military.com. He traveled to Afghanistan and Iraq numerous times from 2002 to 2008, covering infantry units in combat. Matthew was an infantryman in the 82nd Airborne Division.

71 Comments on "MultiCam for Everyone?"

  1. I knew the UCP was a army flop before it was officially adopted. This is pure logical conclusion. Multicam is Well debate is over UCP is gone and now Multicam is going to be standard issue. My opinion this could be better with depending on theater using older woodland and desert in tandem but this is a good camo and will work fine.

    Overall the digi movement is a waste since other camo work far better than UCP and other digi camos. Good job army brass.

  2. FormerDirtDart | June 28, 2012 at 6:29 pm | Reply

    "– The leadership at Program Executive Office Soldier chose UCP over the Scorpion pattern, which was developed by Crye Precision for Natick and was very similar to MultiCam."

    To be accurate, UCP was chosen over "Desert All Over Brush." The Scorpion pattern ranked as third in the 2004 Universal Camouflage analysis.
    1. Desert All Over Brush
    2. Woodland Track
    3. Scorpion
    4. Urban Track (which was closest in colorway to UCP, but unrelated pattern)

  3. If the U.S. Army is going for multicam, then why not adopt a MC woodland variant and MC desert variant? That way, "regular" MC uniforms and all the related pouches, gear, packs, etc can still be used. The original MC pattern could still be used as the transitional pattern. That will at least make the money that was spent for acquiring MC uniforms and gear for A-stan well spent. Maybe this suggestion is a bit too simple?
    Lastly, All this talk of camo uniforms would be moot if weapons are still colored black. Hopefully, the army could dole out a little more cash to camo the weapons. Or at least, use tan or FDE Stocks, grips and rail covers just to break the outline of the M-16/ M-4 family of weapons.
    Just my 2 cents.

  4. Here's my question; why doesn't the U.S. Army adopt a dual-sided/reversible pattern like the Israeli's use; one side for woodland/brush, the other side for desert and rocky terrain?
    http://i17.ebayimg.com/07/i/001/2d/11/89a5_35.JPG

    That way you don't have to buy new equipment for every theater.

  5. "Apparently senior leaders at Natick are livid over the statements made by their engineers"

    Well, if senior leaders at Natick were doing their f***ing job in the first place, they wouldn't have Forage green egg on their face and go around hassling their subordinates for stating the obvious about what some General Officer Weapon Systems did.

    No wonder Army procurement is *********.

  6. Matt – excellent analysis of the Army's backazzwards approach. Selecting MC before the camo competition is over is plain DUMB! You nailed it but go a little further. Consider the minor dust up of two days ago could there be a correlation in the announcement?

    Cheryl Stewardson, the ONE Natick official that stated the decision "got political" was working on the Scorpion uniform for Objective Force Warrior at Natick at the time ('02-'04). EIGHT years later she says the decision got political and she's a hero deserving a medal? Maybe but swallowing the whole story is a bit premature. What were her duties at the time and her insight into the decision becoming political? Why talk now? Considering the camo competition timing, the article, ALL the controversy that UCP is and the EXTENSIVE efforts of defense journalists to get to the bottom of how UCP happened wouldn't a bit of skepticism be healthy? MANY folks are jumping ship right now. She might be a hero but the timing is incredible, no?

    I was working in the Infantry Battle Lab at the time on Objective Force Warrior, Land Warrior and Future Combat Systems. One of my primary responsibilities was modeling the soldier on the future battlefield in analytic simulations to gather quantifiable data to support decision making. I had quite a bit of visibility and interaction with PEO Soldier and Natick. If I told you what I heard as a MAJOR and project officer about UCP and multicam it would differ with what “the daily” and Cheryl reported. For a long time I believed what I was told but after a decade I have yet to find any concrete proof of the conspiracy I was told. (I'll share offline if you're interested)

    Finally, you’ve repeatedly made a great point about Multicam beating out UCP in three competitions. How did MARPAT do?

    The Army’s wasted effort with UCP is news and should be reported, HEADS SHOULD ROLL!!! but it’s no worse than ABUs, NWU and a little research on why the Navy had to develop/field AOR 1 & 2. Those issues have only been superficially addressed. I wonder why? Well actually I don’t.

  7. Systems seems to be locking up. If it double posts please delete double posts. My apologies. I'll check back in a couple of hours

  8. Right now the USAF is sitting in the corner…quietly hoping 1) that no one will notice how terrible their ABU pattern is and/or 2) that the USN's move to blending it's sailors in with the sea (should they fall overboard and not want to be seen, I suppose) will take the next hit on those seeking out poor uniform/pattern selection processes.

    MC is a good pattern. Different variations for theatre of use is a good idea. USAF should piggy-back USA uniform decision. As for MARPAT woodland and desert, both are fine…what was really necessary was the change in uniform cut, pocket position, materials, etc. I think USMC hit that on the head and deserve credit for it. Use of hook and pill by USA is a terrible idea…loud and wears out after washes, mud, etc. Buttons, steel zippers and steel snaps are the way to go. How many of you have tried to quietly adjust the cuffs or wind guard on a Gortex parka? Like crinkling a garbage bag while rubbing sandpaper together…anyway, I'm drifting off target.

    Whatever the pattern or service rifle or issued footwear, the American soldier is a force to be reckoned with. The man makes the uniform, not the other way around.

  9. In my early years in the Army, officers would cut the buttons off their BDUs and sew velcro in place so when you iron/press it, the buttons would leave a bump and look unmilitary! Of course on patrol when they opend a pocket, the RRRRIIIIPPPP sound is sooo natural that it gave away your patrol! It was then deemed garrison only. Now the ACU is nothing but velcro! Does anyone in the entire military read their history?? The LTs I knew way back are now General and said when I make Gen, I won't do stupid stuff,well they are and do!!

  10. Does anyone else notice that, while the Army is publicly taking it over the head for selecting UCP before all the testing was done, there is a story out now about selecting MC before the current testing is done?

    Does no one EVER learn anything???

    And you know what, I kinda like the idea of a MC woodland and MC arid, keeping the current MC as garrison/OCIP/PPE patt. That makes practical and financial sense at this point. Which means it wont happen.

  11. Whatever the testing says is the best, budgetary constraints will ultimately guide the decision.

    With the Sequestration looming, you can be sure the big contractors will get their pork, the republican senators will get their campaign contribution kickbacks and save home district jobs, and the Joes will get the table scraps.

    Multicam is the cheapest, politically easiest option. You don't even have to scrap all that OCIE. The "Family" of Cammo will probably be AOR1 & AOR2.

    In addition, nobody Knows what Crye has submitted in the current testing, but if they're smart, the transitional will be the current issue multicam. This may be another way of saying they already chose Crye.

  12. always felt good amount of money, testing time, etc… could be saved if all the branches wore the same when down range no matter what the pattern.

  13. Different insignias, etc.. of course.

  14. If its proven to be the best then its the best for all. Everybody plays in the same sandbox!

  15. Speaking of uniform, how does the USAF get away with a terrible uniform? It's not good for maintainers it's not good for security forces who sit and wear their gear all day. (most leadership won't allow the combat tee shirts or the absg either because they don't look professional). I wish someone put pressure in the airforce for once when it came to uniforms.

  16. I have MARPAT desert and woodland, I have the old chocolate chip desert and woodland BDU's I also have one shirt in UCP I've worn them CONUS in the woods behind the house to see which hides better during all seasons in the south east US.
    The desert chocoChip does the worst in all seasons even against brown fall leaves it glows. Marpat is dark in fall winter but still blends in well, MarPat desert does well all season also.
    UCP works as long as the background is not dark.
    Olive green is just as good at blending in as any of the cammies.
    I know conditions here in my back yard are far removed from any combat scenario's but it is a way I can test for myself what works.
    MultiCam works very well here also at least the one Cap I have blends well and works as well as MarPat.
    What works in my part of the US year round better than any of the above is Walmart's Mossy Oak patterns for Hunters.
    The reason for Service branch only distinctive patterns is Esprit DE Corps and pride, which may win the war and battles no matter what pattern and color the troops wear.
    No matter what ever uniform is worn even plain old Olive Drab or Khaki tan it will after two or three days in the field will begin to take on the appearance of the surrounding terrain through wear, collecting dirt and crawling around in and on it.

  17. If we are going to go with Multicam, make it across all branches. Back in my days (90s), we had woodland BDUs across all branches (patrol cap vs 8pt cover, rolling up of the sleeves) But we all had the same camo color. Now, we have a different camo pattern for every branch. I wonder other countries' military think of us and how many different camo patterns that we have.

  18. Ha! Just Republicans you say! I see what you did there.

  19. The system is not letting me post. I have to cut them to single paragraphs.

  20. Matt – To be clear I'm not saying you are responsible for this mess. One journalist can't cover eveything. I didn't read the story you wrote but it doesn't surprise me that you went outside the narrative that seems to have been created. My posts' intent are to expand beyond this narrative and ask why everyone has missed huge issues. WHY?

  21. gallogas – that's absurd. Dress uniforms are branch specific.

    The rest is a potential solution though it doesn't address pouches etc.

  22. Reversible uniforms are typically quite hot (ink/fabric) on bith sides. Might be fine for the battlefields of Europe but oh well, you know where I'm going…

  23. In my experience that practice wasn't limited to officers. I've seen a lot more NCOs do it and promote it for a STRAC look. Sounds like you saw the officers that learned that lesson just like some would sew the bottom pockets of the BDU closed since they were never used.

  24. "The reason for Service branch only distinctive patterns is Esprit DE Corps and pride, which may win the war and battles no matter what pattern and color the troops wear."

    BS flag. We've been wearing the same patterns since WWII across the branches and done fine. Now we need differentiation to win? Silly.

  25. My guess is that they are doing this as a backup plan, if the test phases do not work out and also, to please the media. Again, this is just a guess. Also, I would go for "option #2", it seems like a more "prepared" set.

  26. Excellent point but that would just confuse the talking point that UCP was selected over multicam.

  27. System still dropping multiple posts and acting squirrely.

    If I was inclined to believe in conspiracies I'd be wondering if my posting difficulty are being caused I'm scaring the Illuminati. ;)

  28. DigTw0Grav3s | June 29, 2012 at 1:32 pm | Reply

    Here's what I don't understand; why can't the Pentagon find the best patterns for each environment, buy them in tremendous bulk, and save, instead of trying to find compromise patterns?

  29. In all fairness to the Navy, the blue digicam pattern wasn't designed with concealment in mind, the only reason the NWU has camo is to hide dirt, paint, grease, and otherwise extend the time in between cleanings allowing the uniform (in theory) to be worn for longer before it starts to really actually look dirty. It's not like sailors would stand out all that much in their old dungarees or their navy blue jumpsuits commonly worn so the blending into the sea argument is really pointless. If you want to argue the merits of AOR 1 & 2, that's something entirely different but seeing as how they're essentially modified versions of MARPAT I don't see much room for argument there.

  30. Are you talking about the design of the uniform itself or the camouflage pattern it comes in? As I understand it, AFSOCOM made a whole bunch of suggestions for improving the ABU design when it was undergoing testing and the Air Force brass decided, in their infinite, decided to ignore all of their input and not implement any of their suggestions. As for the camo pattern, tiger stripe as a pattern is not that bad, it's supposed to work very well although the choice of using pretty much the same color pallet as UCP wasn't that bright. But I do understand (sort of) what the AF brass was thinking, their idea was that AF personnel working with the Army would stand out less because of the similarity of the colors of their uniforms. With that thinking, whatever the Army changes to all the Air Force has to do is redo the digital tiger of their ABUs using the same or similar colorway(s) as whatever the Army adopts.

  31. Well, in the Philippine Army, there are four camo patterns. 1) DPM for regular troops. The Philippine Airforce and to some extent, the Philippine Navy. 2) The Scout Rangers have their ceremonial black BDU's which are now replaced by a black pixelated pattern. P.A. SOCOM which the Scout Rangers are a part of, have their own distinct pixelated pattern as well as tiger stripe cammies. P.A. SOCOM units have also the option of using DPM.
    The Philippine Marines have their own pixelated pattern which is exclusive for them. The Philippine Navy Special Warfare Group use a reddish/brownish tiger stripe pattern.
    The Philippine National Police have a pixelated pattern for it's Special Action Force and a derivative of the US chocolate chip pattern for the Regional Mobile Groups. This derivative has a different colorway of course, which is predominantly green with splashes of brown and grey. There used to be a blue derivative of DPM for regular police officers who are assigned to the hinterlands. But when policemen started dying because of that ridiculously blue camo, it was scrapped really fast.
    Even the Philippine Coastguard got into the camo circus by issuing a DPM derivative that's similar to the Omani's. I even saw some coasties using woodland brick pattern.
    Not to be outdone, the Jailguards of the Bureau of Jail Management and Penology are now using gray dominant pixelated camo.
    The elite units of the Philippine Army and the Philippine National Police refuse to share their pixelated camo to the regular troops/police because they believe that they worked hard for it. Ditto for the Philippine Marines.
    So if you guys think that you're alone in this camo clustercircus, think again. LOL. Thing is nobody's complaining about it because the regular grunts/policemen have effective camo. With exception to those ordinary policemen who had the extreme badluck of being issued blue DPM. Sadly it took more than a few dead policemen to let PNP brass see the error of their ways. The main reasoning for that blue DPM by the way is that blue is the color of the PNP.

  32. Omaha In June | June 29, 2012 at 7:57 pm | Reply

    +1. This is a great idea, and since it is, it obviously won't go anywhere.

  33. Joe, what is it with you and your love affair for Israel?

    I swear if Israel uses it, its the best ever made……..

  34. i can see certain army units playing **** **** games with "go change into greens! now tans! etc, etc, ad nauseum

  35. Overalls would be a bit hot. The US experimented with overall reversible camo uniforms in the Pacific in the Second World War. One of the reasons why it wasn't adapted because for that environment, the uniform was hot for the wearer. Much more so I imagine if it would be used in arid environments. And Majrod is correct. Ink on both sides would make the garment uncomfortably warm for the end-user.

  36. AMAZING- If an Enlisted member screws up, they get strung up the pole and usually lose their career.

    A senior staff officer (through his bumbling of his department or program) screws up to the tune of millions of dollars and at the most gets an early retirement or VP advisor job with a company he "worked" with while on active duty.

    And they wonder why enlisted don't respect them…

  37. Didn't they test MC a MC woodland version and a MC desert version all in Afghanistan. And didn't the two different versions do the best in their perspective environments?

  38. Shawn McFadden | June 30, 2012 at 4:23 pm | Reply

    The UCP pattern was a compleate wast of money. I never liked that pattern to begin with. To think I had to buy 2 sets of that uniform when I was stationed in Fort Lee, Virginia. There was absolutely no way a Soldier could blend in 3 different environments (woodland, desert, urban) with one uniform. Whoever pushed this idea for that pattern needed to be shot. The multi-cam is truly a better pattern. However my concern is it has proven its worth in Afghanistan. It should have been tested in woodland environments as well. But I like that pattern none-the-less.

  39. I'm an AD Marine and I love MARPAT. However when all this is said and done once the army picks their official pattern, the pentagon is gonna tell us to adopt it and we will carry out that order.

    More than likely it will be Multicam which is a good pattern hands down.

  40. Possibly the best idea in quite a while, very boss sir, very boss indeed.

  41. you could always have a situation like Russia, where troops stationed in various districts throughout the big *** country wear like 20 different uniforms.

  42. those are fascinating links formerdirtdart. like i have said before, if MARPAT is apparently better than multicam and UCP, and the pattern is copyrighted by the marine corps, why wouldnt the other branches just standardize the AOR woodland and desert? correct me if im wrong, but it seems to retain the effectiveness of MARPAT while being different enough not to step on the marine corps toes…

    of course, the army always seems adamant about reinventing the wheel. well have to see how the next camo patterns are.

  43. in the British army we have recently switched from DPM (two uniforms but same pattern: Woodland and Desert) to Multicam. Multicam works great in Afghan but is **** in Britain when we use it on exercise etc. i preferred Woodland DPM for temperate environments. Multicam is really too beige. the pattern is great but it really needs some darker colours to be effective in Britain. i have no idea what was wrong with two uniforms anyway, its not like we have to wear both at once

  44. The cammo we used stuck out like a sore thumb, that was BDUs in Europe. About early 1980s, you could spot someone with a fresh pair a mile away. When they were washed out not as bad.

    The fact is cammo does not work better than one color if that color is correct or close enough. Cammo is all about breaking up the pattern not the pattern. That's why the Israelis wear those funny baker's caps. They did plenty of testing and the truth is the truth.

    The DOD wastes millions on uniforms to find the coolest looking cammo. SO many nations are about their military looking tactiool in their really awesome looking cammo patterns as they march down the avenue. Not many militaries are in a real shooting war, we always are(the USA).

    It's really simple, olive green for jungle, light tan for desert, field drab for forest or something similar. Break up your silhouette/outline that's more important. In case of shortages you can mix and match as they will work in almost all terrain. In the sand drab pants with a tan top works fine. Why do snipers wear Gillie suits? If cammo really worked there wouldn't be all this try and try and try again, they would have found the magic pattern a long time ago. There is NO magic pattern.

    I read that for vehicles in the desert pink worked best. What it's all about is how the human eye sees, this is what should be studied. Take a scientific approach and make your uniforms. I'm sure plain old medium olive green or olive drab would work fine in most places. A light tan would be fine in a sand enviroment. It's not rocket science. Again it's about breaking up the outline, study the way the eye sees things not what looks cool.

    In WWII officers lead their men into battle, now they just point and say go there. That's one of the problems in the US Army. People who never had combat experience making decisions about what soldiers should use, wear and fight with.

  45. in the British army we have recently switched from DPM (two uniforms but same pattern: Woodland and Desert) to Multicam. Multicam works great in Afghan but is **** in Britain when we use it on exercise etc. i preferred Woodland DPM for temperate environments. Multicam is really too beige. the pattern is great but it really needs some darker colours to be effective in Britain. i have no idea what was wrong with two uniforms anyway, its not like we have to wear both at once

  46. The problems of the military won't be solved here, I guess it's a good place to vent though.

    The camo issue really bugs me, it's a sore point. I remember our vehicles, the troop commander Cowboy Bob wanted more black in the pattern. What an A hole. Black is not a natural color in nature. Those M113s and ITVs stuck out everywhere we went. It was a joke. Big black spotches!!!

    In fact these new camo patterns actually look like old BDUs washed out.

  47. ah…i see it now. forgive my typo in the parenthesis. What it was supposed to say is (they don't).

    any officer worth his salt will have the attributes like what maj rod said above.

  48. pink is very effective in an open desert environment. the Great British SAS call their landrovers "pinkies" because during WWII, Oman and more recently the Gulf Wars they painted them pink because it was found to be the best colour through experience.

  49. Dirtdart, They wear that over thier uniform which makes sense. It is NOT their uniform, you can see their olive green uniform underneath their smock, shmuck.

  50. gallogas. It would be deja vu all over again. In the Vietnam War, ERDL developed an early version of the Woodland Pattern. There was a green dominant and brown dominant pattern. Green for the lowlands and brown dominant for the highlands. There was even the tiger stripe pattern for Special Forces/ SEALS. Thing was, even in a combat zone, not all combat troops were issued cammies. http://camopedia.org/index.php?title=USA
    Ther's the issue also of transitional camo.

  51. Separately starch and iron the flaps of the pocket. Make a starch mix and lightly apply it on the flaps and build it up. Do not iron the flaps when it is buttoned to the pockets. Done correctly, it won't leave a bulge.

  52. william9487 | July 3, 2012 at 7:59 am | Reply

    We can only hope that the Army will authorize wearing MultiCam in garrison soon. Most of us already have uniforms and equipment in MultiCam. It works, it looks sharp and the soldiers love it. EVERYONE SATISFIED! Case closed. What is the hold up? The Army already has open contracts producing uniforms and equipment in MultiCam so they can stop wasting tax dollars on ANOTHER uniform. AUTHORIZE MULTICAM NOW!

  53. Went through that back in the day. After four or five uniform changes they'd have a room inspection.

  54. william9487 | July 4, 2012 at 6:20 am | Reply

    Why does this have to be tested? It's already being used by this list of governments around the globe. That should be enough tests.

    Australia
    Bermuda
    Chile
    Czech Republic
    Denmark
    Georgia
    Hong Kong
    Iraq
    Jordan
    Maldives
    Mexico
    Montenegro
    New Zealand
    Panama
    Poland
    Russia
    Slovenia
    Taiwan
    Ukraine
    United Kingdom
    United States: Special Operations Forces (That should be enough in and of itself)
    Norway
    Dutch Special Forces

    I think it's been tested and found to be superior(stop wasting money testing). We already have it issued(stop wasting money producing other uniforms). How many soldiers could be sustained for a year with these funds rather than continuing on with the drawdown of troops? My two cents.

  55. I think the military should decide on one uniform. Instead of spending millions fielding one uniform for soldiers stateside and entering IET. And then spending the money to field another completely other uniform to field those overseas. I've spent a cpl of tours in in Iraq and afghanistan and the uniform I had didnt hold up and we stuck out like sore thumbs. Multi-cam came out for deployed soldiers after I returned from my second deployment. The money being spent on two different uniforms is ridiculous. that money should be going to are servicemen and women and our vets returning home who are disabled and are unable to work.

  56. Good idea Oscar, I hope the Army pays attention. I actually hope DOD pays attention. With a few exceptions, for the first time in our Military's History we now have a different field uniform for every service, and multiple uniforms for most. BDUs and DCUs may be out, but for 20+ years all four services wore them, name tags seemed to work just fine to tell us apart (and the Navy and Marines unique Covers). Before that OG's and OG 107s.

    The weapons camo is also a great idea, just make an ALCON from the Chairmen of the Joint Chief's office allowing unit commanders to adapt the weapons to the environment.

  57. Well when i deployed which was last year with the Army we painted all of our weapons. Most of our brass actually required it, so in a sense multicam weapons has already happened.

  58. Think your zeroed in Big Daddy!!!

  59. If the army is going to MultiCams, it should give the ACUs to the Army Junior ROTC program. Army JROTC is a non-deployed units (High School program). This would cut down on the cost of uniforms for this type of program. Also, the JROTC Instructors, who are retired members of the US Army don't need MultiCams; they can wear the ACUs. This is something that HQ's DA, G-4 needs to look at.

  60. Thanks, I try to use common sense not emotion.

    The people in Washington both military and civilian elected officials are out of touch. They live in towers separated from the common man and soldier. They have no problem wasting funds, there's always more where that came from, well NOT anymore. They still don't get it, those types never do.

    I think there's a saying about making great towers and forgetting to make great men to put in them. I heard it in a movie, "Seven Days In May". I haven't yet found the writer of that saying if there is one.

  61. Actually I heard that when you fall into the ocean it changes to a bright orange color. Something about the salt composition in the water changes it. Not sure if that's true

  62. Doubt this will be read, but here's my two cents. I have about eight and a half years in, training, 5+ years on a submarine, tour in Afghanistan, now I do something different in the navy. I've worn many different uniforms.
    1.I started in the Navy Utilities; they looked like ***, uncomfortable, stained easily, and lasted maybe four months but cheap.
    2. Submarine coverall how I miss you
    3. NWU type 1, comfortable, can be worn off base, cost about the price for two sets of utilities but lasts much longer and cheaper in the long run, but fabric is a bit heavy.
    4. UCP ACU, (worn in training for Afghanistan and almost deployed in) the cut of the uniform works great I loved it, but to much Velcro and it as UCP.
    5. Multicam ACU, (issued the day before flying out so that was a fun day of gear turn in and gear issue.) MC worked great, the addition of the combat shirt made the IOTV much more comfortable and the pants had buttons of the butt and cargo pockets.
    6. NWU Type 3, love them, similar cut to the ACUs, pockets have both buttons and Velcro so you can choose, I want to say made of NYCO 50/50 ripstop, only bad thing I can say about them is the elastic in the waist ban.
    All said and done NWU Type 1 are great for what they were designed for. Army got the cut of the ACUs right but failed on UCP and the navy took many of the lessons learned and applied them to the Type 2 & 3. Now if they would just apply them to the Type 1 all would be right in the Navy uniform world.

  63. Doubt this will be read, but here's my two cents. I have about eight and a half years in, training, 5+ years on a submarine, tour in Afghanistan, now I do something different in the navy. I've worn many different uniforms.
    1.I started in the Navy Utilities; they looked like butt, uncomfortable, stained easily, and lasted maybe four months but cheap.
    2. Submarine coverall how I miss you
    3. NWU type 1, comfortable, can be worn off base, cost about the price for two sets of utilities but lasts much longer and cheaper in the long run, but fabric is a bit heavy.
    4. UCP ACU, (worn in training for Afghanistan and almost deployed in) the cut of the uniform works great I loved it, but to much Velcro and it as UCP.
    5. Multicam ACU, (issued the day before flying out so that was a fun day of gear turn in and gear issue.) MC worked great, the addition of the combat shirt made the IOTV much more comfortable and the pants had buttons of the butt and cargo pockets.
    6. NWU Type 3, love them, similar cut to the ACUs, pockets have both buttons and Velcro so you can choose, I want to say made of NYCO 50/50 ripstop, only bad thing I can say about them is the elastic in the waist ban.
    All said and done NWU Type 1 are great for what they were designed for. Army got the cut of the ACUs right but failed on UCP and the navy took many of the lessons learned and applied them to the Type 2 & 3. Now if they would just apply them to the Type 1 all would be right in the Navy uniform world.

  64. I agree with Oscar. The gear should be coyote brown so it can be universal and will not have to be changed every time they switch cammo patterns.

  65. Everything Oscar said! That is the most sensible set of ideas I have heard yet, so of course they can never be implemented by anyone except maybe SOCOM…maybe. While Oscar is obviously a sharp guy, is it really too much to ask that the hundreds of people spending millions of dollars in "research" be this bright too? I say we do everything Oscar said, give him $1,000,000.00 to say thanks, and call it good. We would save a whole lot more money and blood in the long run.

    Coloring weapons via the plastic furniture is nothing new or revolutionary. Europeans had NATO green furniture on some HKs by the 1960s. All high-grade American makers of accessories make Flat Dark Earth molded products at a minimum, and foliage green and OD are common. Anodizing in FDE or OD has been around for some time in high-end optics and rifle receivers and parts. Simple paint-over-parkerize coatings are old and may be colorized. Advanced ceramic or polymer coatings also are well evolved and enhance the durability and weather-resistance of the weapon system. FN's SCAR series rifles, featuring a fairly large surface area, are prime examples of how a simple shift in plastic components and surface finishing colors dramatically reduced it's threat as a potentially large target indicator. For that matter, hydro-dipping is no longer a curiosity, but is widely used throughout the sporting goods industry without adding dramatic expense when volumes are large. As noted, using standard Multicam in the same vein that the USMC uses coyote brown as the intermediate color way/pattern across different uniform patterns would be functional and cost-effective. The most special forces of many nations have long been allowed to modify their weapon's appearance for the greatest stealth, which would seem like common sense to many of us. But the most special people are pretty few and far between. Meanwhile, even specialized units, such as Airborne or Rangers, are still largely seen saddled with carrying large, geometric, "here I am!" black shapes across their vital zone. Regular units have no hope being allowed to modify anything. This camouflage issue has frustrated me because aside from wasting billions and actually getting people killed, it is actually a microcosmic example of many larger problems in how we have chosen to do this business.

  66. Old fashion woodland always did a good job MARSOC readopted it two years ago and most NATO army's use it still digi is overrated.

  67. amazing this idea hasn't hit the big dogs. the pattern is great, one could just tweak with the coloration and we'd be golden.

  68. Can anyone who is good with numbers add up all the $$$'s spent in the past 20 some years on this cammy that cammy – USN, USAF,USA,and USMC. I USCG still wares a basic dark blue cammy type. I bet all the money spent by the different ego's is the individual services could buy a few Little Crappy Ships LCRs, a couple (or maybe just one F35 A,B,C), more secure storage for the USAF, or more training on holding what you got, and for the USA well enough said. Oh to be a cammy manufacture…growth industry MMCS(SS)(SW) USN ret.

  69. For women again the worst case is to have the freedom of my food choices.

    You can still be unhealthy when following this diet

    approach with your Crossfit diet. Some dieters still decide to include dairy products, such as eggs and nuts, and certain bodily tissues.

    You simply cannot do that, then, there will always

    be times when you are partaking in the diet. That's right, if you want it like a soft bread. The best is pasture produced ones.

  70. ANOTHER PROBLEM IS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER SERVED, ABLE TO BUY THE UNIFORMS AND ALL THE GEAR ONLINE! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!! THERE ARE FAKERS OUT THERE. MAKE THE NEW UNIFORM ONLY AVAILABLE AT THE COMPLETION OF BASIC AND AIT FOR PROPER RANKS. THEN MAKE SURE THERE IS ONLY ONE UNIFORM AND ALL OF THE GEAR UNAVAILABLE ONLINE. ANYONE TRYS TO SELL IT ONLINE GETS IN TROUBLE!

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