In case you missed it from the main side, former intelligence personnel and US SOF troops have accused President Barack Obama of  overseeing reckless leaks about sensitive operations. The group claims to have no partisan affiliation.

If some of it is a bit melodramatic, well it’s a pretty sensitive subject – especially for guys whose lives might be affected bu it (not to mention future operations).

Full version here: http://www.military.com/video/forces/special-operations-forces/dishonorable-disclosures-full-length/1789529826001/

{ 109 comments… read them below or add one }

JJDPAC August 17, 2012 at 6:38 am

this is political diatribe nonsense. Nothing in the President's speeches released threatening information. These are political hacks with agendas trying to make a political motivated point. Some are pundits for FOX news some are failed politicians who coudn't get voted into office. With all the leaks in Washington, now they speak up!!??

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Nope August 17, 2012 at 7:52 am

He has done nothing to stop the flood gates of classified info that has continued to pour out of his administration. If you think this is just FOX making up a news story then you are have not heard the argument correctly. This is a major issue, not some made up political story.

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Amerika August 18, 2012 at 4:31 am

Prez can't do anything about it. The operators themselves are selling the info under the table for tons of cash, most likely. Honor and loyalty don't pay the bills for the big new house or upgrading from the Kia to the Mercedes.

It's not like Prex isn't leaking anything that half the planet doesn't already know. Heck, he's probably pre-empting the news networks before they open their big flapping gums.

With the internet, social media, instant communications, etc, the armor is extremely thin. Leaks are about as easy to come by as they are on Battleship Texas.

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Tp August 18, 2012 at 7:41 am

Oh so your saying the most elite of the elite are selling secrets? Your a dumb *** kathrin bigelow wasn't invited to Coronado she was invited to the white house to learn everything. What about the doctor who gave us the info on UBL who now is rotting in a Pakistani jail and you want to know how this hurts us? How about the fact no one will or should trust us because or leaders whoever they may be leak info if it benefits them. Thats not how intelligence works that's how stupidity works!

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TripWire August 18, 2012 at 2:03 pm

This President and his administration has not been a friend to the military. From Leon Panetta disarming Marines before a speech in Afghanistan to Obama telling our enemies about the trove of intel gathered at Abbottabad, the list could go on and on. This isn't about politics with us, it's about honor and respect for what we do, something the White House seems to know nothing about. Obama is using whatever he can to get four more years, and he doesn't care who he has to sell up the river to win. He wouldn't have to do this if he had a record to run on. I am no big fan of Romney but he will be a far cry better than Obama.
@Amerika- You're an idiot if you think that the Prez can't keep his own house in order, he is the President for God's sakes, that's his JOB. And no professional is going to sacrifice their safety for a few bucks, at least I haven't known any who would.

Total August 18, 2012 at 2:17 pm

@Tripwire: Baloney. Under this president, the military budget has continued to go up substantially. Under this president, the generals have actually had their input valued (how quickly you've forgotten Rumsfeld). Under this president, we're actually winding up two wars that 1) we shouldn't have been involved in in the first place (Iraq) and 2) stayed too long (Afghanistan).

You're whining about a speech and something that *wasn't* an intelligence violation.

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Total August 17, 2012 at 6:59 am

What JJDPAC said. Worse, they've edited out the part of the speech where the President gave the troops credit and then claimed he didn't give them credit. That's appalling.

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Long Thrust VI August 17, 2012 at 7:04 am

A tremendous amount of "need to know" information leaked out of the White House. Instead of making this a political issue, the President, or whomever is in charge, should identify & discipline the leaker(s). That's not likely to happen because the leaked information tends to favor the current administration.

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Brandon August 17, 2012 at 7:08 am

Maybe its strictly political. Maybe its political because they are fed up with the White House spilling the beans. Maybe its strictly political because they want the Administration to cooperate with the Congressional investigation into the leaks that even Democrats have said it is alarming how the Administration has obviously leaked a lot of classified information and is now stone walling to cover up. Either way, the video makes sense no matter which President's administration leaks information.

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rcrogers6 August 18, 2012 at 1:51 am

Oh, phooey! What beans? There has been no avalanche of leaks – period. They made a big deal about the UBL Raid and yet, what was compromised? Besides, the ignorant NSC jerks couldn't get the story straight and gave at least two versions – both inaccurate.

It's clearly political because of the time they chose to release it.

It's clearly political because of who they are – Republicans.

It's clearly political because they have office space in a Republican PR firm; one of whose partners is part of their organization.

It's purely political because they have already received $1.26b million from undisclosed donors. Can you spell Koch brothers? Except for the Attorney General (not a fave of mine) no one is investigating leaks other than perhaps CI outfits – I hope.

If you want someone to believe you, list some leaks from American sources which have caused damage to national security. Name the beans.

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RK August 17, 2012 at 10:01 am

Swiftboat Redux. Follow the money. Operators being plied by billionaires is a sad and dishonorable end to service-oriented careers.

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Sev August 17, 2012 at 11:29 am

I'd like to hear what FormerSFMedic's opinion about all of this. Personally, I do think the Obama administration purposefully leaked classified intel to make Obama look tough. Releasing the news of Bin Ladens death immediately after the raid was extraordinarily STUPID. Any actionable intel we found was turned useless. And of course the liberals are going to say "Millionaires and billionaires are funding this SHAMEFUL attack ad". Get the **** out of here! Obama did put lives at risk and then to have the audacity that these people in the video aren't qualified to make such statements is galling! Any one of these people has more integrity and character in one pinky than the entire Obama Administration does!

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Huh August 17, 2012 at 10:06 pm

"Releasing the news of Bin Ladens death immediately after the raid was extraordinarily STUPID."

I know, it's not like somehow Alvin Queda would get the tip off from the ISI that Bin Laden was dead, oh, and by the way, there is a crashed stealth black hawk here near the Pakistani military academy. No sir, they would not have figured that one out. Oh, and the civvies left there that were part of Alvin Queda, they wouldn't update their Facebook page with that info either right?

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Marine August 17, 2012 at 11:30 am

I agree with the purpose and message behind the video, although it does seem politically charged. The fact they won't disclose their donor's makes it even more likely to be political. But, I agree with the message. Unfortunately, I think the execution could have been done better. The promotional clip above was laughable; a Hollywood style movie trailer which is exactly one of the things the group criticizes. The actual video itself on the hyperlink was more professional. But, I think the clips of POTUS walking away, or close ups of him in "out-of-context" photos detract from the serious nature of the overall message. It makes the video seem more sensational, like the negative political ads on TV we keep seeing of late. I think it dampens the credibility of the message.

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xcalbr August 17, 2012 at 11:46 am

The video did make a good point. Publicly announcing the killing of Osama Bin Laden that day allowed Al Qaeda, now brought to light because of the intelligence provided at Abottabad, to unearth and hide somewhere else.

It cracks me up to hear the liberals brag about their boy "flipping the switch" on Bin Laden. As if its like in the TV show "24".

Of course, there is a reason why Obama announced it. The Afghan War needed signs of progress, especially after the large deployment of troops there and increasing casualties.

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Total August 17, 2012 at 12:08 pm

Releasing the news of Bin Ladens death immediately after the raid was extraordinarily STUPID

Oh good lord, that's a silly comment. The worst murderer in American history, the man responsible for 9/11, and you don't want the news of his death released? What, exactly, is the intelligence risk there? It's not like Al-Qaeda was not aware that its leader had been killed, and I'm guessing that they knew enough to flee Abottabad without the Americans telling them to.

Ye Gods, people.

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Enchilada August 17, 2012 at 12:50 pm

Swift-boat part II. The only thing dishonorable about this video is the people involved in it's production, and money behind it.

Like him or not the president made the tough call, it paid off, and now his opponents are trying their best the smear that effort in dung.

Truly shameful.

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Enchilada August 17, 2012 at 12:55 pm

Also don't delude yourselves… these same idiots would be saying there was something insidious behind any delay in the announcement if it hadn't been done right away. They would be saying he was trying to cover something up.

This is pure anti-speech. Everything he does is bad because he does it.

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Houston August 18, 2012 at 4:59 am

Please. This is the jerimiah wright disciple who made sure Osama was given full burial rights as a "good" muslim but would not show the U S citizens pictures of him dead. Which is it Obama sycophants? Is Osama a "good" Muslim or a mass murderer. We know what side the man child president is on.

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NMate August 18, 2012 at 8:01 am

The US has generally afforded full burial rights for its enemies. They're dead, it's over. No need to drag them around like some Wild West side-show, it cheapens the United States as a Nation.

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Total August 18, 2012 at 9:27 am

The side of grammar and capitalization?

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Total August 18, 2012 at 2:39 pm

By the way, Valerie Plame is laughing at all of this. Hollowly, but laughing.

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NMate August 18, 2012 at 10:05 pm

This.

I really don't like Obama. I will not be voting for him in November (probably will be writing someone in). However, the worst things Obama has done is codify the crimes of the Bush Administration instead of undoing them. I have to wonder where all the right-wing armchair Constitutional scholars were when Bush was wiping his *** with the Constitution.

That said, all those on the left-wing who railed on the abuses of the Bush Administration, and rightfully so, will be little more than hypocrites if they vote Obama-Biden in for a second **************.

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xcalbr August 19, 2012 at 10:51 am

NMate, you hit the nail on the head. That is my biggest criticism of obama. It proved to me not that he's ineffective, but that hes bought and paid for just like bush was. The supposed "socialist/marxist" is actually a corporatist/fascist strongman for the banks.

Ironically enough, the left-wing that bashed bush relentlessly are mostly mysteriously quiet about obama, conveniently ignoring the blatant actions against the constitution just like his predecessor. Few have spoken out. To me, that demonstrated the sheer power of the system that is in power; the most liberal, democratic people we can elect acting like a bunch of imperial warmongers.

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Total August 19, 2012 at 12:58 pm

Oh baloney. You only say that because you spend no time reading what leftwingers say about Obama. Try taking a look at firedoglake on health care.

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xcalbr August 19, 2012 at 3:09 pm

im aware of that because it is saved to my favorites, though my generalization is still true and applies to both sides of the political spectrum.

Total August 19, 2012 at 3:54 pm

Shall I start naming *other* leftwing blogs that go after Obama/

DScout August 19, 2012 at 5:42 am

Many of you seem to think you know better than these guys. What are your credentials? None of these guys are political pundits for Fox News. The Generals have been guests on some of the Fox (and CNN) shows for their military insight…so get it right please.
This is not about one speech made by Obama…where did you guys get that? its about his administration leaking classified secrets…for these guys in the video to tell you exactly what that is would make them no better than the group Obama has appointed.
I see naysayers here saying "Phooey" "Baloney" and "beans", if anyone wants to show how their argument has no merit they will use words like this to cloak their lack of facts.
It is no wonder a man that has been surrounded his whole life by radical Marxist, a self-described drug addict in college, has no job experience outside of politics, and fills his cabinet with close friends or friends of friends who are socialists/communists, is getting leaks. Think about it and wake up! The idea that these people want to weaken our government falls directly in line with what they are saying about leveling the playing field for other countries to "have what we have"…and it starts with crippling us to make room for a one world government. We are the last bastion of freedom and everybody on the block wants a crack at kicking us in the teeth.

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Total August 19, 2012 at 6:25 am

You see naysayers here saying "Beans"? Really?

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rcrogers6 August 19, 2012 at 6:39 am

Well, yeasayers said beans and then cooked their beans first!

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xcalbr August 19, 2012 at 10:45 am

there is no crippling the US for a one world government. Just as the United States was unified, the world unification would require unlimited energy, which is not the case; ipso facto, there is no enough energy for a singular world government.

**** is falling apart around the globe and politicians and wall street pundits in the US are trying to make a buck while the whole mother ****** barrels down into oblivion.

Yes, everybody wants a kick. thats what happens when empires fail. Our empire failing is a symptom, however, not a causation of what is going down.

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xcalbr August 19, 2012 at 9:51 pm

yeah sure. i dont follow political blogs anyways because theyre a portijohn wall for "information" (LOL).

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Total August 20, 2012 at 4:48 am

Start with Glenn Greenawald and work your way from there.

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 9:21 am

Generals being listened to? McCrystal asked for 40k, not 30k. He asked for them in Aug '09 and didn't get them until Jan '10 and he wouldn't have gotten them at all if he had not told the press he wanted troops vs. a withdrawl the President was considering. In Iraq before the pullout the Generals wanted a residual force of 20K. The administration whittled that down to 5k and the Iraqis said no knowing that was too small a commitment.

One can argue the utility fo Afghanistan of Iraq but one can't argue about the record.

BTW, operational details of the Bin Laden raid ARE an intel violation along with the release of the stuxnet virus strategy and the details for the selection and apporval of drone strikes.

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 9:22 am

Ok, but the fact remains details of the Bin Laden raid ARE an intel violation along with the release of the stuxnet virus strategy and the details for the selection and apporval of drone strikes.

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Total August 20, 2012 at 9:56 am

BS. The Osama raid was announced because the Pakistanis were going to announce it, and because there was the crashed wreckage of a US helicopter in the compound. It wasn't secret anymore. Also, again: Osama is dead, and you're asking the President NOT to announce it? Really?

As to the Stuxnet thing, the disclosure in the Times is now being investigated by special prosecutors appointed by, wait for it!, Attorney General Holder.

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm

So you think the Pakistanis were going to embarass themselves and say "yep, Osama was here next to our West Point all along"? BRILIANT! BTW, tha Pakistanis had no idea how many or the types of aircraft/troops were involved or that it was DEVGRU. Icould go on with more operational details the Pakistanis had no idea of and couldn't expose.

It's incredible the mental gymnastics some will go through to spin the release of classified operational details is no big deal.

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Total August 20, 2012 at 5:36 pm

Yes, the Pakistanis were going to talk about it; in fact, a Pakistani general had explicitly told the Americans so. They had to explain an American raid that deep in Pakistan.

As to the other details, you're really reduced to the number of helicopters in the raid as being some critical element of national security? Now, you're grasping at straws, and whining about it, too.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 1:45 am

A Pakstani General was going to say "we had Bin laden for four years and didn't know it". BS flag! Prove it…

criket… criket… criket…

Finally a destroyed helicopter doesn’t tell the Pakistanis we used stealth drones to surveil the target, the raid force consisted of 80 SEALs from ST6, the total number of helicopters, the route skirted or flew under radar we had reconned beforehand, th fact we used a FARP or that we took anything off site. Those are all techniques, tactics and procedures we might want to use again “genuis”.

You're so desperate to make excuses for the administration you don't have the good common to stop digging when you're at the bottom of a grave and are talking about whining with tears coming down your face.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 7:16 am

From: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/17/opinion/bergen-obam

Pakistani journalists started arriving at bin Laden's Abbottabad compound soon after the helicopter crashed and started filing stories about the mysterious helicopter and its oddly shaped tail rotor. An Abbottabad resident even tweeted about the unusual sound of helicopters flying over the city in the middle of the night.
It wasn't much of a leap for reporters to ascertain that these helicopters had particular features that had prevented them from being detected by Pakistani radar.
Soon after the SEALs had raided the Abbottabad command, Pakistani officials on the ground were interrogating bin Laden's wives and children at the compound who told them that bin Laden had just been killed. None of this was going to stay secret for long.
Indeed, it was Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, Pakistan's top military officer, who sped up the Obama administration's announcement of the raid. A few hours after the raid, Kayani told his American counterpart, Adm. Mike Mullen, "Our people need to understand what happened here. We're not going to be able to manage the Pakistani media without you confirming this. You can explain it to them. They need to understand that this was bin Laden and not just some ordinary U.S. operation."

Cricket, cricket.

are talking about whining with tears coming down your face.

Oh, poor boy, are you crying now? Go get a hug from someone, it'll help.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 8:39 am

Oh, and:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statement

So, no, none of those details were released by the President or at the President's behest.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 10:46 am

"We’re not going to be able to manage the Pakistani media without you confirming this."

IS NOT a Pakistani General was going to spill the beans!

BTW, an editorial as a reference? Yeah, for a spin meister.

Not crying but you sound pretty shrill… :)

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Total August 21, 2012 at 11:03 am

The truth? You can't handle the truth!

5 points for getting the movie reference.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 11:09 am

Not a rebutal to "total" but info for those that want to make an educated evaluation vs. getting played by a political hack.

Politifact" totally" focuses on the movie claim in the video and comes up with "MOSTLY false". They don't address the TTP that was released by the administration, stuxnet or the drone kill stories. Spin meisters want to apply "mostly false" by politifact" to the whole video which is clearly inaccurate to obfuscate the fact that classified info has been leaked by the administration.

Same as citing a Pakistani General begging for us to explain the raid because the Pakistani press was inb a feeding frenzy. What wasn't quoted by the spin meister was the other half of the quote. "Mullen then told Obama and his national security team, "Kayani has asked for us to go public,". Hardly an admission the Pakistanis could or would go public that Bin Laden was "hiding" in Pakistan for four years. More importantly the Pakistanis had no operational details. The size of the force and how they got in/out were leaked by the administration.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 11:21 am

Oh, the same movie that featured this one…

"You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

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Total August 21, 2012 at 11:30 am

Rebuttal is spelled with two "t"s.

Oh, the same movie that featured this one…

Excellent! Which is the same kind of rightwing fantasy rant that you've been having here. Well done, Colonel Jessup.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 11:54 am

Yes, let's correct spelling, call me names etc…

Yep, demonize the messenger vs. debate the message.

x4

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Total August 21, 2012 at 3:10 pm

Just imagine that I make a further (deserved) snotty comment here, so you can insert "x5"

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 9:24 am

Yep, demonize the messenger vs. debatethe message. Talk about "political"!

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Total August 20, 2012 at 10:01 am

The last day the messenger got to speak without being demonized was the day before Republicans in 2004 started wearing band aids with Purple hearts stenciled on them in reference to Kerry. After that bit of crap, people trying the same thing all over again have no credibility.

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 2:44 pm

Yep, demonize the messenger vs. debate the message. Talk about “political”!

x2

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Total August 20, 2012 at 5:37 pm

I'll bet you were wearing one of those purple heart band-aids, weren't you? Pathetic.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 1:47 am

Yep, demonize the messenger vs. debate the message. Talk about “political”!

x3

Is that the best you got pogue?

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Total August 21, 2012 at 7:15 am

I love that you're not denying you wore one of those band-aids. Did it make you feel proud to disrespect the military like that?

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 10:48 am

I am hardly disrespecting the military. You're a political hack.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 11:00 am

Answer the question: did you wear one of those purple heart band aids in 2004?

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 11:15 am

LOL, quit jumping up and down.

I never heard of purple band aids and why would I wear one? Was it some public show of solidarity? Heck, I thought the US flag on the right shoulder of my uniform under my combat patch would have been enough.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 11:32 am

My God, you finally answered the question. With a confession of ignorance, sure, but that's par for the course.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 11:51 am

Uh, now who's disrespecting the military…

Yep, definitely an Obama supporter.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 3:11 pm

Oh no, son, it has nothing to do with the military. You earned your disrespect as an individual and an American. Good job.

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 9:26 am

Yep, demonize the messenger vs. debatethe message. Talk about “political”!

The truth is hard to get around (and that goes for the swiftboat scene also). Some don't like to be held resposnible for what they did or didn't do.

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 1:16 pm

LOL majrod, youre killing me!!! ****!!!

on a serious note you're absolutely right.

"Some don’t like to be held resposnible for what they did or didn’t do."

Right. Thats the ******* point to the whole thing. its just easier to accuse credible experts, that offer legit criticism of this administration, of being paid by billionaires.

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 9:31 am

Well, if the Pakistanis announced that Bin Laden was IN THEIR COUNTRY that would not have made them look good.

BTW, just holding it 72 hours would have paid dividends and the vide wasn't just about Bin Laden, stuxnet and the drone story did as much or more harm. Even Feinstien said this is impacting our ability to operate with other intel agencies.

The excuses are incredible. Ye Gods!

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Total August 20, 2012 at 10:02 am

BS, again. Were the Pakistanis going to hold it 72 hours? They had journalists already at the compound when the President announced.

the vide wasn’t just about Bin Laden, stuxnet and the drone story did as much or more harm

So, you're conceding that the Bin Laden thing is bull.

And all of those are just as much BS.

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 2:47 pm

God you Obamafuhrer types are thick.

So the Pakistanis were going to admit that Bin Laden was in their country next to their West Point for four years? Not likely.

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Total August 20, 2012 at 5:37 pm

The Pakistanis were, in fact, going to say exactly that, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good hate.

Oh, and nice invocation of Godwin's law.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 1:52 am

BS flag. Cite your source that the Pakistanis were going to admit Bin Laden had been killed in Pakistan… (This is going to be a L O N G wait)

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Total August 21, 2012 at 7:17 am

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/17/opinion/bergen-obam

I already quoted the correct part, so I won't again.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 10:49 am

You're thick.

"We’re not going to be able to manage the Pakistani media without you confirming this."

IS NOT a Pakistani General was going to spill the beans!

BTW, an editorial as a reference? Yeah, for a spin meister.

You sound pretty shrill… :)

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 10:49 am

You're thick.

"We’re not going to be able to manage the Pakistani media without you confirming this."

IS NOT a Pakistani General was going to spill the beans!

BTW, an editorial as a reference? Yeah, for a spin meister.

You sound pretty shrill… :)

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Total August 21, 2012 at 10:59 am

I do love that you can't manage to do it without posting twice. You were jumping up and down, shrieking so loudly that you accidentally clicked twice, right?

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 11:23 am

Nah, you're that thick. It needed to be said twice.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 11:32 am

I'll stick with my interpretation.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 11:50 am

Predictable

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Total August 21, 2012 at 3:12 pm

Have you been right in anything you've said in this thread? I can't find an example.

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 3:59 pm

i cant find a example of you being right either.

the idea that pakistan was "teetering" on the brink of admitting OBL had been killed in Pakistan is utterly stupid. Sure, they were absolutely thrilled he was found in Pakistan anyways. that did everything to bolster their credibility with the US.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 4:08 pm

Wait, your defense of majrod is: he's been entirely wrong, but so have you?

Well argued, sir, well argued. With friends like that…

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 9:44 am

Yep, demonize the messenger vs. debate the message. Talk about “shameful”!

Even Feinstien said this is impacting Nat'l Security. Yep, she's partisan…

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Total August 20, 2012 at 9:59 am

Wait, your argument is that McChrystal got slightly fewer troops than he asked for and that they came six months later than he had asked for them? Eric Shinseki is laughing his *** off at you right now.

In addition, yes, he pulled American troops out of Iraq. That's a *good* thing. It's called ending a war.

As to the Bin Laden raid, bs. They didn't release any operational details that weren't already in the public domain.

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Ahmad August 20, 2012 at 1:46 pm

What kind of operator, former or otherwise, asks for credit? It was necessary to tell the public that Osama was dead. He was bad guy #1. As for an "information leak", please! This is just blatant political garbage.

There's always a tiny percentage of any community that pulls the rest down by affiliation. Whether it be the SF community, the Republican party (Akin), or the entire religion of Islam (various terrorists groups).

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majrod August 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm

No buddy YOU WAIT.

YOU'RE the genius that said, " Under this president, the generals have actually had their input value". What happened to Shinseki has nothing to do with your point unless you want to admit both President’s didn’t listen.

The Bin Laden details got in the public domain BECAUSE the White House put them there!

Oh and BTW, pulling out of Iraq was negotiated by the previous president not this one.

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Total August 20, 2012 at 5:34 pm

No, buddy, YOU WAIT. There's a substantial difference between a general who gets most of what he wants, close to the time he wants it, and a general who gets canned for giving his honest opinion. The first is what happened with Obama, and that's what good civil-military relations look like. The latter happened with Bush and Rumsfeld and is a model for appalling behavior.

As to the Osama release: the Pakistanis were talking about it to the press, there was a wrecked American helicopter on the ground, and Osama's family was chatting with the press.

You're the type who would have complained about FDR talking about Pearl Harbor the next day.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 1:39 am

Most and close? It was half a year before they STARTED to arrive in country. It was a WHOLE YEAR before the 30,000 troops closed! BTW, you probably don't know but you know at what percentage a unit is considered combat ineffective? 70% genuis. 30k of 40k is 75% or FIVE PERECENT beyond combat ineffective.

What does McCrystal's relief have to do with releasing secrets? Never mind, You're grasping for straws.

Finally a destroyed helicopter doesn't tell the Pakistanis we used stealth drones to surveil the target, the raid force consisted of 80 SEALs from ST6, the total number of helicopters, the route skirted or flew under radar we had reconned beforehand, th fact we used a FARP or that we took anything off site. Those are all techniques, tactics and procedures we might want to use again "genuis".

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Total August 21, 2012 at 7:14 am

As I said, close and most.

What does McCrystal’s relief have to do with releasing secrets?

I was talking about Shinseki's forced resignation for speaking the truth. Sad that you did know that.

Finally a destroyed helicopter doesn’t tell the Pakistanis we used stealth drones to surveil the target, the raid force consisted of 80 SEALs from ST6, the total number of helicopters, the route skirted or flew under radar we had reconned beforehand, th fact we used a FARP or that we took anything off site. Those are all techniques, tactics and procedures we might want to use again “genuis”.

Since the President didn't release that information either, I have no idea what your point was, "genius."

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rcrogers6 August 21, 2012 at 11:17 am

There was only one general and he is an idiot and a birther. Multiple sources have identified these guys and one is a failed Republican Congressional candidate, another is a principal in the Republican PR firm which provides their office space. These clowns wait until the rundown to the election to become concerned with OPSEC? Is that their real concern? I don't think so.

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crackedlenses August 21, 2012 at 3:55 pm

@Total

Total, you are being as obnoxious as your dancing partner here. Major Rod may be wrong on this, but it is telling that you and only you are fighting with him. I, for one, would like for FormerSFMedic to come and settle this once and for all.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 4:11 pm

@crackedlensese

You're absolutely correct that I'm being obnoxious to majrod. Puerile partisan demagoguery brings that out in me.

If you don't like it, nothing's forcing you to read this thread.

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 4:00 pm

i dont look at political blogs. if i wanted to see a bathroom wall, i would venture into a truck stop.

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Total August 21, 2012 at 4:10 pm

Oh Good Lord, you're claiming that the left doesn't bash Obama, but you don't actually read the bashing?

You're 2 for 2 on good arguing in the last few minutes.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 4:17 pm

Those Bin Laden raid details came out of the white house.

BTW, Shinseki never resigned. He served a full tour as CJCS. His successor was named early.

You play fast and loose with the facts. I see your backing off as the walls close in. Keep backing up, the cliff is right behind you.

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 4:19 pm

Your just showing how strong your argument is…

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 4:21 pm

Another example of the strength of your argument.

Son? Uh yeah… Keep goingdown that road…

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majrod August 21, 2012 at 4:25 pm

I could care less who's making the point (though it should be considered).

Did the release of operational details and TTP of the Bin Laden raid, Stuxnet and drone strikes hurt that nation? Everything else is politics.

All the media is concerned about is the political affiliation of the messengers vs. the message.

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RVN SF VET August 21, 2012 at 4:34 pm

The Pakistanis were outraged that we penetrated their airspace with impunity and carried out a raid. The Parliament was up in arms at the failure of their vaunted and expensive military's failure to intercept the intruders. A key reason for this outrage was that they felt that India could do this to. The military said that they were focused on defending against India.

There was a young man on his computer in his house across the street from UBL and he started Twittering about the raid when he first heard the helicopters. Thus, the world knew that there was a raid. The next day, Pakistan was showing the helicopter to the Chinese and arresting UBL's family. They demanded to know what the Ptresident thought he was doing – that was General Kayani.

So, Obama told the American people that President Bush's pledge had been fulfilled. Before that, I would bet that ISI had informed key Al Qaeda leaders that UBL's house had been hit. In the military and in the intelligence community, given those circumstances, you automatically assume that the network has been compromised. The President of the USA doesn't have to tell you.

Everybody knows that this is both what happened and that it is also the logical explanation. The only way you could think or say otherwise is if you are blinded by your dislike of Obama or you are a Republican seizing on anything that might discredit his performance as President.

Had these fine fellows (Republicans) been truly interested in OPSEC, they would have produced and released this propaganda much earlier instead of waiting for the rundown to the election.

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 11:14 pm

"There was a young man on his computer in his house across the street from UBL and he started Twittering about the raid when he first heard the helicopters. Thus, the world knew that there was a raid."

no. "Over the next few hours Athar muses if the owners of the helicopters are Taliban or drones, and expresses suspicion at reports that the apparent crash is connected to breaking news about Osama Bin Laden’s death. It turned out the helicopters belonged to U.S. forces. “Uh oh, now I’m the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it,” Athar tweeted."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2011/05/02

they didnt know it was a US raid and osama bin laden had been killed until after the news released.

"Before that, I would bet that ISI had informed key Al Qaeda leaders that UBL’s house had been hit."

quite possibly, but not without the CIA finding out.

"Had these fine fellows (Republicans) been truly interested in OPSEC, they would have produced and released this propaganda much earlier instead of waiting for the rundown to the election."

there was already criticism before "dishonorable disclosures"…

“Too many people in too many places are talking too much about this operation,” Gates said, adding that the level of disclosures and blabbing violates an agreement reached in the White House Situation Room on May 8, 2011, to keep details of the raid private." -Bob Gates, May 8 2011.

"On May 9, The Associated Press reported that a CIA asset from Saudi Arabia had infiltrated al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula and thwarted a planned “underwear bomb” attack on an airplane bound for America. As a result of that disclosure, the asset had to be extracted and brought to the United States, possibly precluding opportunities for obtaining future inside information from within the terrorist group."

"On May 29, The New York Times ran a detailed account of how President Obama directs U.S. drone attacks based on a classified “kill list” of terror suspects. The story rightly credited Obama with killing top al-Qaida leaders. Sen. John McCain has charged that the kill list leak was politically motivated."

"On June 1, The New York Times ran a story revealing an alleged U.S. covert action program called Olympic Games, designed to thwart Iran’s nuclear program with computer virus attacks utilizing first the Stuxnet computer worm and later the Duqu malware. Thanks to the Times article, which cited U.S. government sources, details of the previously unknown operations are now public, including how the programs were supposed to operate and the involvement of Israeli intelligence. Up to that point, the possibility that the U.S. or Israel was behind the cyberattacks on Iran’s computers was pure speculation. In effect, the Times story provided Iran with a roadmap on U.S. efforts to defeat its nuclear bomb efforts."

"Another front-page New York Times article in 2011 disclosed that the Obama administration had agreed to sell to Israel bunker-buster bombs capable of destroying buried targets, including suspected nuclear weapons sites in Iran."

like i said. this is not the first time.

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majrod August 22, 2012 at 1:58 am

Great points! Wait, they don't count because you don't like Obama! DO OVER!!!

That's the logic behind many of these folks! It's stunning!

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majrod August 22, 2012 at 1:59 am

last post applied to xcal. Site isn't posting stuff correctly.

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majrod August 22, 2012 at 2:00 am

The raid is one of three high profile instances. One incident doesn’t qualify as a trend.

I don’t doubt the folks releasing this don’t like Obama. IT DOESN’T MAKE THE POINT ANY LESS VALID!

Those that ask “why didn’t they bring this up before?” have credibility issues. Was Feinstein being partisan when she commented that the leaks had to stop? Is the ongoing investigation that Obama hired Holder put in place “late”?

Quit making excuses for low security standards. You wouldn’t have accepted it back in the day. Why are you accepting and making excuses for it now?

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majrod August 22, 2012 at 1:55 am

The raid is one of three high profile instances. One incident doesn't qualify as a trend.

I don't doubt the folks releasing this don't like Obama. IT DOESN'T MAKE THE POINT ANY LESS VALID!

Those that ask "why didn't they bring this up before?" have credibility issues. Was Feinstein being partisan when she commented that the leaks had to stop? Is the ongoing investigation that Obama hired Holder put in place "late"?

Quit making excuses for low security standards. You wouldn't have accepted it back in the day. Why are you accepting and making excuses for it now?

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crackedlenses August 21, 2012 at 8:18 pm

Making yourself look like an idiot is your perogative, as it is mine to read your stuff and issue accusatory statements on your belligerency. Call it circling the wagons, but you have yet to prove Major Rod wrong. I know him on here, I have no idea who you are. I'm with him. And I have to agree that you have run out of arguments (and the fact that you have Xcalbr after you is living proof you're down the wrong alley).

The fact that the terrorists were able to conveniently shoot down a **** containing members of the team that performed the OBL raid clearly demonstrates that someone failed on OPSEC; I don't like Obama for a variety of reasons, saying stuff he shouldn't may very be a good reason. As for Stuxnet, anyone monitoring Israeli intelligence news would have known exactly what was happening long before Obama would have a reason to talk about it….

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 10:08 pm

oh excuse me for not looking at the same blog as you do. How mistaken I must be! LOL

obviously i must come up with this stuff by pulling it out of my ***. never mind following publication after publication while listening to liberals stand by their messiah chanting "yes we can", all the while he ******* hoodwinks all of them and continues business as usual.

if you truly believe that pakistan was planning on unveiling osama bin laden's death based on the appearance of helicopters in the dead of night, then i cannot help but laugh.

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 10:14 pm

"Wait, your defense of majrod is: he’s been entirely wrong, but so have you?"

where in the **** did i say he was wrong? let me guess, you were the president of your debate class?

"Well argued, sir, well argued. With friends like that…"

I dont need to argue anything. Im not the one that claimed that the pakistanis were going to unveil the killing of bin laden anyways. That is a pretty bold statement that you made and youre resorting to personal attacks and political spin to cover your **** on the wall.

Tell me, did they see the body of bin laden being loaded into one of the helicopters? in the middle of the night?

How would they know if it was bin laden if they didn't already know he lived there?

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 10:24 pm

which sources? now im curious.

I could care less what ******* political party they're from. It is the issues that they're bringing up.

Its okay for the obama administration to leak information, though whistleblowing that reveals them as the ********* they really are is: not okay? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMuClfmGrD0&fe

oh imagine that. no wonder people are waking the **** up.

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 10:31 pm

"Finally a destroyed helicopter doesn’t tell the Pakistanis we used stealth drones to surveil the target, the raid force consisted of 80 SEALs from ST6, the total number of helicopters, the route skirted or flew under radar we had reconned beforehand, th fact we used a FARP or that we took anything off site. Those are all techniques, tactics and procedures we might want to use again “genuis”."

ding ding ding! you sir solved the puzzle.

But never mind those pesky little things! as long as your candidate looks like he "flipped the switch" in a "24" fashion, all is good right?

oh wait. Those are the TTPs of America's most elite. Hopefully majrod isn't the only one that sees that as a problem.

Like I said before, i understand why obama and his administration did what they did.

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xcalbr August 21, 2012 at 10:54 pm

by the way,

"Ironically enough, the left-wing that bashed bush relentlessly are mostly mysteriously quiet about obama, conveniently ignoring the blatant actions against the constitution just like his predecessor. Few have spoken out."

THATS what I said. not "All are mysteriously quiet…" or "none have spoken out".

you must be a master of reading comprehension.

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majrod August 22, 2012 at 1:46 am

That must hurt when facts hit you between the eyes like that!

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majrod August 22, 2012 at 2:01 am

moderator – please delete double posts. "REPLY" button isn't working and places posts at bottom of thread.

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rcrogers6 August 18, 2012 at 2:31 pm

Panetta may be an idiot, but he didn't order the Marines to do anything. A Marine general noticed that a group of ANA had been disarmed and decided to disarm his own men in a fit of PCness. The sergeant major who relayed the order was surprised and embarrassed.

Many people say the White House does this or the White House did that. The White House and the President deal in policy and strategy, not details below JCS. Of course, the President does talk with his CENTCOM and ISAF commanders, but it's mostly in listening mode.

If you are interested in reality, check out this article:

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rcrogers6 August 18, 2012 at 3:12 pm

Or even this one (the first disappeared.) http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/17/opinion/bergen-obam

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