Thoughts?

“More people, more people out there get shot with a Glock that has a…that that has cartridges that that you can have magazines that can put 2, 10, 8, 12, 15, 30 shells in it than from any assault weapon you see…I’m much less concerned quite frankly about uh, um, what you’d call an assault weapon than I am about magazines…” VPOTUS Joe Biden

{ 47 comments… read them below or add one }

Marc January 28, 2013 at 6:06 am

Clownshoes

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Mitch January 28, 2013 at 6:14 am

Asshat

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JCitizen January 28, 2013 at 6:18 am

Well I'm more concerned about a possible future tyrannical regime that uses military force on the civilian population (WACO anyone?), and the regular joe sixpacks are under powered for revolt against such tyranny. That is why the framers of the Bill of Rights put "well regulated" in the terms for the militia. That is old English for WELL ARMED AND TRAINED. As far as the term militia, that is obviously referring to the general populace of males 18 or over, who are of able body to defend freedom. Just read the Federalist Papers if you doubt their intentions.

This isn't about hunting folks, this is about the future of true freedom.

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Veteran January 28, 2013 at 6:23 am

Biden or the rest of you that think guns / weapons of defense, kill people. Your about as wrong as you can be ! PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE ! Its coming down on the 2nd amendment & the issue is this, mental health ! To the shooter take full punishment for the act. For the press. Stop making super stars or Gods out of these folks. Keep it quiet! As far as who's wrong is your local congress men and women for aiding to the rape of the 2nd amendment.

Thank you

Wv47dod18

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JCitizen January 28, 2013 at 6:26 am

Thank you Wv47dod18! We need to stand up or forever hold our peace. I prefer to do that and hold on to my "piece". :)

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Gallowglass January 28, 2013 at 6:43 am

More frightening than a lunatic with a gun (I KNOW what to do about that) is the fact this babbling idiot is one or two heartbeats from the Presidency.

Then again, maybe better a babbling idiot than a megalomaniacal egotisical tyrant.

Either way we're humped. Nice work, America.

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Marc January 28, 2013 at 6:49 am

He (they) want to make us (the US) a third world country to punish us for being successful (their perception is we are colonialists). We will not willingly all become dirt merchants, so they need to disarm us in order to subjecate us.

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DocCoy January 28, 2013 at 12:25 pm

IMHO we would be better served for him to be the POTUS, he doesn't have half the brains that Obama does.

No matter how you feel about Obama he is the most inteligent POTUS that we have had in 50 years, that along with his give a shit attitude of doing what he wants makes him more dangerious to our rights then Joe would ever be.

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Marc January 28, 2013 at 12:36 pm

Especially given his agenda to 'deconstruct' the United States as a superpower and 'First World' country. When you consider that even the poorest American 'makes' more than most of the rest of the world, his agenda is truly scary.

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DScout January 28, 2013 at 7:43 pm

its not the tail that wags the dog. Meaning Obama is not the intelligent one, he is merely the puppet of the progressive liberal movement that has been in the works for decades. Obama is a pothead puke with his Chune gang ideals to punish colonialism. He merely speaks well and is "clean looking" (Biden quote). These guys were waiting for Sandyhook and the media eagerly pumped it up for them to mount there assault. It was a matter of time.

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Southern January 29, 2013 at 4:25 am

Sorry, I do not believe he is as intelligent as his press says. We have not seen grades, when he gives a speech its on teleprompter or he fumbles through it with more "uh" s and "ah" s than a high school debater. Nothing I have seen indicates he is more than average intelligence and was socially promoted.

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Broadsword January 29, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Some question President FUBAR-AK O'Trauma's intelligence. AS Nixon used to say, 'Let me say this about that.' I'm sure that ALL of you remember the great 'Medical Corpseman' episode.

Woody January 28, 2013 at 6:49 am

Interpretation: "We realized that we can't pass an assault weapons ban, so we're shifting our focus to magazines."

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Marc January 28, 2013 at 6:54 am

They are content with even the little incremental restrictions they achieve as we continue to 'compromise' our rights away.

Forget about the camel's nose under the tent; his whole head is in the door and he is pushing hard.

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John Toups January 28, 2013 at 6:51 am

What scares me is this guy is one seat away from the presidency. Hey Joe! Two well placed rounds from a bolt-action battle rifle such as a Mosin-Nagant equals 19 rounds o'nine….If you limit my mag, I'll just be a little more careful of my shot placement.

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Marc January 28, 2013 at 6:55 am

After they limit magazines and 'aasault weapons' they'll come for your 'sniper rifles'.

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Paul January 28, 2013 at 7:18 am

As a police officer and a veteran I took an oath to protect the constitution of the united states foreign and domestic. I will defend our 2nd amendment rights even if I have to go to war against our government…

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Jeff January 28, 2013 at 8:21 am

The proponents of "gun control" always say its not about duck or deer hunting. That people don't need assault weapons. What they fail to take into consideration is that at the time the 2nd amendment was written, John Q. Public had the same rifle hanging over his fireplace that the arm was issued. So why then would the founding fathers ever think it would be different.

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lloyd January 28, 2013 at 10:17 am

that idiot could be the next presidential lunatic. i thought he was dum & dummer they really think that they can rewrite the constitution wrong. we wont let them.

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Jeff January 28, 2013 at 11:44 am

They think they can do anything because of what has been passed before. They did an Assault Weapons Ban in 1994 so why can't they do it now? The main difference is now a lot more people have them and don't see the reason they shouldn't have them (this includes me). We have stood silent for far too long as the Gov't has passed law after law that has trampled the Constitution, keep up the good fight people.

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JCitizen January 28, 2013 at 2:21 pm

The previous law was for FOREIGN rifles and magazines. I was able to get all American made rifles and magazine all during the ban. That is why there was no Constitutional challenge to the old law. The President can do anything he wants with Foreign treaties and such – that is a power given him by the Articles.

This would severely impact foreign made ammunition, just like it did then; because it couldn't have a belt on it.

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Marc January 28, 2013 at 2:37 pm

Actually, the ban of imported firearms went into effect in 1989; the AWB did specifically name many domestic firearms and magazines but there was a 'grandfather clause' that allowed 'pre-ban' items to continue to be bought and sold.

As for ammunition, importation of surplus military ammuntion stopped several years ago, hence why you cannot find South African or Portugese 7.62MM Battle packs any more.

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JCitizen January 28, 2013 at 4:19 pm

I am referring to the US – sorry. I just got some British surplus just a month ago or so. All perfectly legal. However – right now demand is SO high, that not even ordinary hunting ammo is available in any store in my area. The supply has simply dried up, in all calibers and gauges.

I imagine the halcyon days are over whether they ban or not.

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Marc January 29, 2013 at 4:37 am

You lost me.

I didn't say you can't find foreign surplus ammo, I said it is no longer imported so anything found will be from old stocks imported before the ban.

Yes, demand is high. The world market has been gobbling up raw materials, the government has been buying up domestic ammo and destroying military dunnage, sheeple who are slowly awakening are scrambling to catch up now that the administrations fear mongering has hit home. Because of all this, opportunists are buying up everything they can so they can gouge those who were ill prepared before the orchestrated panic.

JCitizen January 29, 2013 at 5:25 am

I am pretty into the business, and I never heard of your import ban, at least not one that is active until now. The old law was sunsetted so is no longer relevant. The head stamps on the cartridges exceed your date, so that was imported later. I bought it from one of the biggest retailers in the states. They are not known for funny business, and wouldn't risk violating any import laws. One of them had brand new .308 ammo straight from Afganistan and the GWOT. We had no relationship with that country during the times and dates you are citing. Perhaps you could provide a link to the import ban law, so I could be convinced it was still active.

Morgan 278th January 28, 2013 at 2:45 pm

You want to hear my theory?

No?

Too bad. I think this presidency is a +200 year revenge scheme, made by the british to punish us for opening a can of whoop ass on them in 1776. Obama is actually british, and his attempts to cover up his birth certificate are to hide his british side.

BOOM. Whose minds did I just blow.

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Billywhat? January 29, 2013 at 1:30 am

straitjacket anyone?

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Marc January 29, 2013 at 4:40 am

Unfortunately, you are more correct than wrong. Obama is a anti-colonialist who is determined to 'make America pay' for being the First World Superpower that we are; the land of opportunity where anyone can rise to the highest levels based on their ambitions and motivation.

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JDs Handsome Son January 28, 2013 at 4:29 pm

With every utterance they make our ruling class exposes their ignorance of our Bill of Rights and their reaffirmation twice now by the U.S Supreme Court. The 2008 Heller case did more than confirm our individual right to guns. It further held that the purpose of the 2nd was to guarantee our right to self defense and the defense of the republic, not hunting and sport. It held that the types of weapons protected are those commonly held by the people and appropriate for militia operations. What better gun than an AR for military duty by the unorganized militia? All need to read the Heller case so that they can see for themselves what bumbling idiots we have in high office

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JCitizen January 28, 2013 at 5:05 pm

Here! Here! :D

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Pete January 28, 2013 at 9:43 pm

Criticising Joe Biden is like clubbing baby seals… Not too sporting.

The bigger issue is over half of Americans voted for this guy.

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defensor fortissimo January 29, 2013 at 1:20 am

For the record I never club baby seals…. I use a chain-saw.

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Craig January 28, 2013 at 11:40 pm

Pete has got it right….

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SomeJoe January 29, 2013 at 4:51 am

What bothers me is Douche bags like this that are so hard core anti gun…and they don't even know the proper terminology. So how could they know anything about what they are talking about. I wouldn't want this guy defending me in a court room. He's a moron.

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NJ Motorcop January 29, 2013 at 5:32 am

"The bigger issue is over half of Americans voted for this guy."

Actually, Joe, they didn't.

Only 58% of eligible voters bothered to vote and of those that did, 51% voted for this ultra-corrupt regime. That means that less than 30% of "Americans" voted for him. "Americans" is in quotes because we already know that huge numbers of illegal aliens and other unqualified people were allowed to vote, with many of them voting multiple times.

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DJ January 29, 2013 at 8:51 am

Hey FEDS are not gonna dick around, they mean business……check all the heavy action related to the FT Hood Shooter. They relieved the judge who required the POS to shave before coming back to court!Has he actually been prosecuted yet,………well……Not so much.

oh, it ain't about guns ,its about control…..registration? Thats the first step in confiscation.

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Broadsword January 29, 2013 at 3:21 pm

Joe Biden is so 'bat-shit' nuts that I would swear that his mouth and brain have not interacted for years. He appears to just make stuff up ! With that in mind, and for those of you who saw the 'debate' where Biden whet ballistic with Romney…I offer the following. " A Bully, a drunk and a blowhard walk into a bar. The Bartender says, "Oh….Hi JOE!" People who run for Congress should be subject to background checks AND take the Minnesota Multi-Phasic-Personality- Inventory. If you resemble 'Crazy Joe', that test will alert everyone.

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Capt Jake January 29, 2013 at 3:38 pm

As well intentioned as the gun control people are, they always over look the obvious. Only law abiding citizens will obey whatever stupid law the enact. Criminals on the other hand will not obey any laws enacted regarding firearms, magazine capacity, or ammunition. The country with the lowest gun related crime in the world is Switzerland. Their gun laws require every citizen over the age of 18 to own and know how to use a firearm. The prize for the worst gun control goes to Australia. They banned gun ownership and gun crime soared because only the criminals had guns and they knew law abiding citizens had no guns. In the Untied States the states with the most liberal gun laws have the lowest gun related crime rate. The States with the most restrictive gun laws have the highest rate. Case in point: Chicago, IL. Chicago's homicide count eclipsed 500 last year for the first time since 2008. Chicago's homicide rate was almost double in the early 1990s, averaging around 900.

And as an afterthought lets start a campaign to outlaw motor vehicles they kill more people than are killed with guns. 32, 141 people were killed in vehicle related accidents and according to the FBI 14,612 were the victims of gun violence in 2011. Why is there no out cry? Why are there no demands for stricter vehicle ownership laws?

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Finn Pointe January 30, 2013 at 6:13 pm

Right on point JCitizen!

The right to bear arms is not a "tradition for Sportsmen and Hunters" as described by President Obama in a recent speech. It is the right of the citizenry to fight back against gross abuse of power and governmental authority, backed by military force.

Throughout the twentieth century, there were instances where State and Local governments abused power and applied force of arms against citizens to retain control.

Look up the Ludlow Massacre (1914) in which the Colorado National Guard was used by a corrupt mining company to ambush striking miners. Women and children were killed during the attack.

Look up the Battle of Athens (1946), corrupt officials restructured voting districts, rigged elections, in the end shooting a poll monitor and stealing the ballot boxes to control the polling results. Veterans recently returned from service in Europe and the Pacific Theater engaged and stormed the Sheriff department and restored lawful elections. The National Guard was in process of mobilizing to assist the corrupt County government. Swift action with appropriate armament prevented another tragic misuse of government troops.

We are free because our citizens can stand on an equal footing with our government, with the ability to bring the same force of arms. This was our founders intent. This is what was codified in the Second Amendment of the Constitution.

This has nothing to do with "sportsmen" and "hunting".

This is about ability to enforce the constitution on those who would abuse the power granted by the people.

There is no room in that equation to ban “assault weapons” or “high capacity magazines” unless we are stripping these from our police and Military as well.

It was CIVILIAN rifled muskets that won our freedom in the war for independence.

It was CIVILIANS using military issue “assault rifles” that ended gross abuses of power in Athens, TN in 1946

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DJ January 31, 2013 at 7:21 am

@ Finn Pointe-Roger that, they like to leave that whole thought train and intent out of the argument. How terrible would you feel if I reposted this(i'd only as "relevent post", or…????).The post I'm referring to was I believe in response to JCitizen-ie Battle of Athens etc.

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Finn Pointe February 1, 2013 at 6:57 pm

@ DJ Feel free to re-post.

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DJ February 2, 2013 at 11:29 am

roger -"repostable", will fire for effect;)

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Slag February 1, 2013 at 10:37 pm

First they came for the assault rifles…

But I didn’t resist, because I didn’t need an assault rifle.

Then they came for guns with multiple round capacity…

But I didn’t resist because I could get by without.

Then they required registration and increased restriction to insane levels…

But I didn’t resist because, well, they have their reasons.

Then they came for all guns…

So I gave mine up because I’ve been conditioned and society will be safer, right?

Then they came to shoot me…

Because they knew I wasn’t armed.

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Slag February 1, 2013 at 10:48 pm

I did follow the link, but it's a moot point, my "Representatives" are: feinKENstein and Boxer, the 2 worst for gun rights around!

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Marc January 29, 2013 at 8:53 am

I can't find any executive order or law directly prohibiting the importation of surplus ammo, so the 'ban' may have gone away with the AWB. However, the ATF rules leave a lot of room for interpetation. Here is what I did find:

Due to an Executive Order signed by President Clinton, the US military can no longer "surplus" ammunition, except via the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), and the CMP does not sell 5.56/.223 ammo. US military ammo (most notably from the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant) used to be widely available, but has become quite scarce and the prices quite high, in the last few years. Though some military ammo components are "saved" by contractors disassembling the ammo and selling the components most expired or out-of-spec lots of ammo are burned. Billions of rounds of ammo, paid for by US tax dollars, are burned yearly.

ATF Ruling 80-8

The provisions of ATF Ruling 80-8 provide that an application for a permit to import a surplus military firearm or nonsporting firearm or ammunition may be approved by ATF if the application is supported by:

An original purchase order from a law enforcement or government agency specifically describing the surplus military firearms or nonsporting firearms (manufacturer’s name and address, type, caliber or gauge, model designation, quantity, and serial numbers, if known) or nonsporting ammunition (manufacturer’s name and address, type, and caliber or gauge, quantity); and/or

A letter prepared by an official of a bona fide law enforcement or government agency, on agency letterhead, signed by the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO), such as the chief of police, sheriff, commander, etc, or other officially designated employee having the authority to procure firearms or ammunition on behalf of the agency, stipulating that the firearms and/or ammunition are being purchased by the agency with agency funds for departmental inventory. The letter must specifically describing the surplus military firearms or nonsporting firearms (manufacturer’s name and address, type, caliber or gauge, model designation, quantity, and serial numbers, if known) or nonsporting ammunition (manufacturer’s name and address, type, and caliber or gauge, quantity)

ATF Notes pertaining to the importation of ammunition:

12. Note: This permit does not authorize the importation of ammunition or ammunition components if they contain tracer or incendiary elements.

25. Note: this permit does not authorize the importation of the ammunition described thereon if: (1) it has a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium, copper, or depleted uranium; or (2) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

29. Note: Pursuant to 18 U.S.C. §925(d)(1), the tracer, incendiary, armor piercing, or other nonsporting ammunition approved for importation on this permit may only be imported for the specific scientific or research purposes identified in the import application. It may not be transferred to anyone other than the specific user identified on the import application, who will use it for scientific or research purposes.

57. Note: This permit authorizes the importation by the importer of the nonsporting ammunition described thereon for the purpose of distribution to law enforcement and government entities only. This ammunition may not be transferred or otherwise disposed of in the United States or otherwise disposed of in the United States other than as stated.

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JCitizen January 29, 2013 at 6:17 pm

Yes, that much is correct. The President does have a lot of leeway in getting bureaucratic edicts out of the BATF to control many things, and especially foreign imports. None of the ammo I've purchased since the ATF Bulletins came down the pike, had any tracer or incendiary, or armor piercing or such stuff – so they probably made it through an approved importer. Even with the new Bulletins ( as they are called by NFA dealers) that were imposed when O'Bama became President four years ago, there has been a lot of freedom of movement until now. None of these previous bulletins affected ammo made in the US. The surplus market dried up of course, so private contractors that use to supply the government started making their own, outside of US Govt. contracts, and not surplus, to supply the market. Some retailers call it surplus, but there is no such thing as a US Government ammunition arsenal – they were bought out by civilians years ago.

Of course the climate is so poisonous now, that you can't even buy regular hunting ammo off the shelf at Walmart, but I can still get 5.56mm NATO quality tracer ammo still packed in US Military type stripper clips, cardboards, and bandoleers, from civilian contractors and it is still legal. Tomorrow it may not, but today it still is.

I want to thank you for your studious discussion here, and I think it is good to get the information out there so the public can make informed decisions. Thank you very much for your time! :)

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