Barn busting, Remington Rand style

Submitted by Eric Daniel

In 1990 I was issued an M1911A1 .45 caliber pistol that had been manufactured by Remington Rand during WWII.  Though a stout and reliable firearm, my “Colt” had one limitation. 

Its accuracy. 

To put it mildly, I was surprised the bullets ever hit the ground.  At 25m I had a shot group of around 2 feet. 

Now, I was (and still am) by no means an expert on firearms, and stories abound regarding the inaccuracy issues of the M1911A1, but the one thing I did know was the .45 was, and still is, used extensively in pistol competitions, so I knew the weapon design was not the issue, nor was the ammunition, but I was at a loss as to why I literally couldn’t hit the target right in front of me.

This went on for a year or so until we got a new Platoon Leader in our company who also happened to be something of a shade-tree gunsmith and a Colt collector.  What he said was, no the weapons aren’t bad, and the ammunition, while not match grade, wasn’t the cause, but rather, the Army’s level of “tolerance” in key components.  Bottom line, all my troubles centered on the barrel and barrel bushing.  Upon further inspection it was noted that when fully seated (slide all the way forward) my barrel was still capable of movement, a LOT of movement, as was explained to me, which obviously was having an effect on my accuracy.  Unfortunately, as the LT explained, that “slop” was still within Army tolerance, so technically there was nothing to be done.

Well, the next day what should appear but a Brownell’s catalogue, listing all the parts I would need to ‘fix” my .45.  I purchased a barrel, barrel bushing, barrel link and pin (as well as a plastic deadfall hammer and some lapping compound to fit the barrel and bushing to the slide) and then spent the next field problem hammering the slide back and forth the fit them.

The results, however, were immediate and satisfying.  My shot groups had collapsed to about 5” (good I thought, considering I was still shooting a stock slide and receiver.) The Lt., on the other hand, was shooting VERY good groups, but then he’d gone the extra step to get a complete fitted slide assembly, to include adjustable rear sight; after qualifying he’d just remove his slide, re-attach the Army issue one, and turn the .45 back into the arms room (which would explain why folk who checked his .45 out to qualify with didn’t do so well.)

Anyway, that small investment on my part not only dispelled all those accuracy issues surrounding the .45, but also improved the quality of my shooting.

Visit Brownells here

Comments

[BWJones]

I seem to remember that it was 1990 or 91 when the services switched to the M9. In fact, my cousin in the Coast Guard at the time ended up dumping many, many 1911s from the Coast Guard, Army and Air Force in the San Francisco Bay at an undisclosed location... Yes, that was the official DOD decision... Dump 'em in the Bay.

[wacurry@megavision.com]

Eric Daniels does not know anything about shooting 1911 A-1s, or anything else about pistol shooting.

I do. Since I have shot competatively pistols since 1974.

Eric Daniels, with way to much time on his hands is now posing as very knowledgeable about pistols?

Since Eric says that he is a member of the US military, we should all listen very carefully to Eric?

I will bet that Eric couldn't put 10 rounds in the black at 50 yards if someone gave him a box full of ammunition and day to do it.

Eric appears to be just another soldier that thinks his uniform makes him an expert shot.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Yet all the US civilians are of a mind that these heroic US soldiers can shoot better than Annie Oakley.

Bull!

Go Eric! Go!

[Eric Daniel]

Wow....

About the only constructive thing I can think of to say would be Daniel, D-A-N-I-E-L, no "S".

[Hugo]

Maybe he's been at too much of the Jacks

[RobV]

I guess Mr. wacurry never heard the term "Good nuf for Govt work.."

Eric, I'd say your "gunny" was bang on correct. Govt tolerances are measured in fractions not decimals.

[Robert Kile]

Mr? Wacurry,
You're what we call;"an Ass"!

[Tim]

Hey curry why don,t you tell us if you ever had the pleasure of serving and shooting in our military if no then go play weekend warrior and leave the shooting to the real men!!

[Jerry Dison]

I'm sure every soldier that was ever issued a 1911 and had to qualify with it,(as I did in 1987) can attest that we all could field strip that pistol and practically put it back together with our eyes closed. Nowhere in Erics' article did he attest to being an expert, but quite the opposite. He very clearly let everyone know he was not. Yet for some inexplicable reason, "wacurry" took the whole article as some kind of fired up brag piece and a personal insult. I guess he has some beef with the military for some insane reason. The civilian known as "wacurry" may indeed be a crack shot, but he obviously cannot comprehend the written word. To slam somebody like he did with evidence to the contrary right on the same page really does make him look like an ass. Well stated Robert.

[EC Tovar Jr]

I read the original post with interest. What was done with these pistols was HIGHLY irregular--but if you wanted accuracy, it was the only way to do it.

I remember while in the Service, I had the chance to shoot in an I Corps Combat Pistol Championship. We could use two hands, and all the targets were at 25 yards.

I attempted to draw one of the new M9's, but instead I got a 1911 from a Battalion arms room--the durned thing was ORANGE with rust and neglect.

On the way to the range on the day of the competition, I took an ammo can full of Break Free, took the grips off, and proceeded to work the action--which took a LOT of effort--until it moved. Upon arrival, triggers were weighed--mine would not trip, despite over 8 lb of weight on the stack!!

Nevertheless, I found that by holding low right, at 5 o'clock, I could land rounds into the bullseye. I managed to come in second in that Competition--not bad, considering the amount of competitors!

Fast forward to today--I am an active Conventional Pistol competitor, at the cusp of breaking into Master. Both my wadcutter gun and ball gun will hold 1.5 inch at 50 yards, from a Ransom rest. I can chew the center out of a timed or rapid fire target--but I still look back with fondness on the days of parkerizing, rattly guns out of the rack, and that 1911A1 pistol.

[Ecosharp Investigator]

I am much disquieted by this boys "enlightened" review of the Colt 1911. I served a few and when I got to choose my personal sidearm it was and will always be the 1911. I was able to find a nice tight one, and I 'acquired' an old black leather shoulder holster which i modified to rest on my chest under the blouse. It was my constant companion and got me and my troops out of many a jam. Saved me and my men on more than one occasion. But then I'm just an old sergeant, what do i know. So what does our venerable reviewer opt for the 9 mighty mouse or what??? Last time I shot against a Marine Gunny, without a doubt the finest marksman I ever met and he out shot me, transfered that one right over to him without question. Last I talked to him he was able to cycle that one out and still has it. Man do I miss that ole piece of hardware. The 1911 is as accurate as the operator, and his armory SGT can make it. Believe me, that piece with knock down a charging buffalo. So let's tune up the ole girl, give her a nice lube job, all in the right places and go out and have fun. And if they are a coming thru the door (enemy), ya don't have to wait for it to open. Do your own door knockin with a real weapon.

[RJ]

Isn't it the truth that every group has an ass. I just had to say something.
US Army 68-71

[Mick]

"Heroic soldiers shoot better than Annie Oakley?" Yeah, I'd say they do seeing as how I doubt Annie Oakley ever had someone charging her position wanting to KILL her when she was shooting.
Cutting down our military warriors, are you freaking kidding me? You're making fun of a guy with a Bronze Star who is a freaking CavScout! You're making fun of the military who are RIGHT NOW on patrol wondering if they are gonna' live through this day. I'd say that pretty much qualifies them as experts to me!
Kick ace article and right on.
My dad carried one of those clanky suckers in WWII and Korea, and I did during the end of Nam.
My son deploys next week and will have a 9mm thank God. (Not for the knockdown power, but for the danged accuracy!)
And right on Jerry, I could field strip and slap my .45 back together in the dark, the mud, the rain,oh yeah, sweet memories...

[john]

my take on the .45? At home, civilian life, I pack a Browning HP 9 mm, when I pack, but military, when you know a LOT of crap may be falling on your head any minute? Gimme the old .45 - in fact, gimme two or three of them, because when you hit something, it STAYS hit....personally, I think switching to the 9mm was one of the dumbest moves ever

[William Zwiker]

As a former gunsmith, I've worked on plenty of 1911s and 1911A1s.

And as a former soldier, I know that the usual engagement range wherein one might need to use the pistol was about seven feet. Not yards. Not meters. Feet.

At that kind of range, "minute-of-chest-cavity" accuracy is good 'nuf.

[James Smith]

I carried a 1911 in the navy during the korean war and every once in a while I would have to target practice with the marines and they were in charge. So I had to shot from the positions that they dictated. I hated shooting the 45, I felt like I was better off throwing throwing rocks. I could see the round ark downward as I fired. Now after all these years I would love to have a 1911a1. That was a real weapon.
James Smith former navy police petty officer

[John]

God do I remmeber straping on that chunk of steel! We had blackened stainless frame .45's on my sub. Talk about heavy! But even though it was not all that accurate past spitting distance when it mattered we knew it would drop a target be it drenched in salt water, mud or abnything else. Big mistake going back to 9 mm. Hell it was the lack of stopping power of the p-38 9 mm/.38 that lead to the mighty .45. Why the hell did we go back toa popgun? Oh I know it was to make NATO happy. An apeasement that most likely has cost us American lives.

[B Taylor]

I don't know where RobV got his information regarding the US government measuring in fractions not decimals. Can you enlighten me please? I'm an Aerospace welder working for all of the uniformed services, NASA and (nearly) every aircraft manufacturer in the world. We measure everything using the metric system. My welds and OAD's are measured on granite tables, three times down to generally +/- .001,before I allow it to leave my welding booth. Then it goes to NDT (Non Destructive Testing) X-Ray, dye penetrant, then the parts go to inspection services where they get inspected several more times to ensure they fall within small metric tolerances we are required to meet.

[Eric Daniel]

Again, a little clarification….

1) I’m not bagging on the M1911A1. I like the M1911A1 very much and I especially like fact that it’s made of steel. You could literally drive over it with a tank and after picking the mud out it’d function just fine.

2) That particular .45 however, and I’ve been issued many, was just plain old tired. The barrel bushing was worn, the barrel was worn, the slide was worn and the sights were mashed. But then, it was over 40 years old and quite possibly may have seen service in a couple of wars, so that is to be expected.

3) I was not looking to make a “tack driver” nor was I planning on trying to qualify for the Olympics. I also wasn’t “blaming” my pistol for my poor shot groups. I was simply confronted with an equipment issue (worn parts) and had to get creative in resolving the situation. The parts I ended up ordering completely resolved my situation and I had no desire to push the issue further (there was no way in hell I was going to try and get away with using my own slide assembly, for example, nor did I think it necessary.)

[Bill Brown]

The army some years ago refitted all the 1911's and did not replace the barrel bushing or the barrel . They , the ( army) rather picked up the 9 mm which is not a stopping round by any means , as was later found out . Again someone reiventing the wheel , when we had a good weapon . Tax payers money again

[Tom]

It was meant to be used at close range. And to reload fast. The handgun has saved a many of a life. Not at 50 yards but less then ten. And most likely killed more by accident then any other weapon we had in the past. Poor training accounts for that.

[rlpaynewa]

I was a Navy corpsman who served as a rifle platoon corpsman with the Marines in the Korean War. We had trained with carbines, but these were taken away and we were issued a Colt.45 in Korea (mine was a Remington). I think we may have fired one clip from one while attending Field Med School so I had no idea how to shoot or clean one. The first time I stood weapons inspection I drew my .45 as the platoon leader stepped in front of me as I had been instructed by the Marines. He ducked and passed me by. Afterwards he called me over and told me that corpsman did not stand weapons inspection in his platoon. The previous corpsman had had an accidental discharge and almost blew his head off.

A Marine returning to the States sold his Thompson, but the deal did not include his ammo. He gave me a sand bag full of .45 shells. As is said, practice makes perfect. I became very good at hitting C-rat cans and had fun shooting at the paddy rats. They were quick, fast and hard to hit.

During the firefights I was involved in I was too busy taking care of Marines to fire my weapons. I used the M-2 carbine I had acquired mainly as a leg splint. It worked great for that.

The only time I went to squeeze a round off I thought what a big head the person crawling towards me had. Then it dawned on me it must be a Marine helmet although I had been told there were no live Marines in that direction. That Marine probably never realized how lucky he was.

I have seen what a .45 will do to a chest (an accidental discharge). The victim was instantly dead.

When I was sent to the rear I used to volunteer to be the field corpsman at the rifle range. The gunny knew I liked to shoot and used to bring out .45's for us after the Marines left. He taught me a lot.

After my Marine tour I served aboard a ship. I was assigned to the landing party and had to do some test firing at a target towed behind the ship. When my turn came and I walked up with the .45 in my hand that I had just been issued. There were many nasty comments about everybody needing to duck because the corpsman had a gun in his hand.

Firing from the high stern of a cargo-type ship,I put every round close to the bullseye on the towed target that was bouncing up and down and around in the wake of the ship. The only one to even put every round on the target. Nobody said a word when I finished. When I returned the weapon to the ship's armory, the gunner's mate said. "Doc, where in the hell did you learn to shoot like that."

I think the Colt .45 got its bad reputation for inaccuracy from the old guns whose barrels were probably shot out, were not taken care of, and were fired by shooters who did not know how to shoot them. I still think Colt .45 auto has the best "feel" of any pistol I have fired and I know they can be deadly accurate.

[Peter Michael]

Hmmm... Let me just say, to this day my weapon of choice for personal protection has been and will continue to be the venerable 1911, albiet my present one is a Kimber Custom...but the one that I had while in Nam was a standard issue 1911 that I had had reworked by the Marine Armorer in Georgia. I had many occasions to have to use it, and whatever I hit...stayed down. Unlike what happens with the current 9mm's. And...., May I ask...Mr Wacurry....what ever kept you from being in the service? Were you too good for it? were you a draft dodger? or perhaps...protecting the freedoms you have received by living in this country and being able to bear arms is something you take for granted and do not realize that all of us who served made it possible for you to have the life you do. You seem to be rather illiterate, because you failed to read and comprehend what the writer of the original article Eric Daniels was saying...simply that by trial and error he got an old 1911 to become a bit more accurate by changing out some worn parts.. or..perhaps you are just simply....an ass..

[Edward Holman]

I was an marine infantry LT in the 1970s. The M1911 was my issue. Anybody who's packed one knows the guy is right about the sloppiness of it, and it's plausible the above cure would tighten it up for quals. But in running goddamn gunbattles at 10 yards or less demands the best knockdown pistol on the planet, and that's the .45 ACP.

[Michael S. Betts]

I carried a Remington-Rand 1911 as an off-duty weapon for several years but swapped it for a 9mm when the department decreed that we couldn't carry anything larger than a .38 off-duty. Broke my heart when I found out that R-R 1911's are priced at $1200 - 1400 at gun shows now.

Ever wonder why cops shoot suspects 4+ times now? Because their 9mm's are pissant popguns, that's why. If you double-tap someone with a .45 and he doesn't go down - RUN for your life!

[Terry Weller]

I'd be willing to bet that when S/Sgt John McGINTY got his CMO on Opertion Hastings in July '66, he was real happy to have his .45 with him and not some wimpy 9mm. If I remember right, he killed 6 or 7 NVA that day with his. Naturally, all at close range.
To use a phrase from a favorite Gunny of mine from those days, wacurry talks like a man with a paper A*^hole.

[Ed Russell]

I agree with the author. I am not a gun expert. I did carry a 45 in the military for awhile and liked the attributes of 'knock down' power at close range and low muzzle velocity which means if you had to use it to protect yourself in your own home, your less likely to send a round thru your neighbors bedroom wall also.The biggest drawbacks of the weapon are noise, and accuracy. This puppy will definitly hurt your ears if your not protected. I agree somewhat with a few of the responses about 'shooters ability' being partly responsible but honestly, sometimes I think I couldn't hit the ground at 10 ft. with this 'NEW' off the shell 1911 I bought. Nevertheless, I like it and still have it but I would like very much to be able to improve on it's accuracy. Mine is from the Springfield armory. (they might all be for what little I know about it )

[Bruce Stump]

I fired manya 1911 as aM MP in the 80's. While none of them were "Tack Drivers" ( I never thought of combat shooting as a tack driving contest) I was always able to put rounds on target. My measure of success was to take a target hold it up to the middle torso and see if I would want to be struck in that spot by a 230 gr Ball round. The answer was always a resounding HELL NO! I've also fired the M-9 extensively. I'd walk over a crate full of them to get to 1 1911.

[Bill Bowers]

I purchased a basic 1911 from Springfield Armory about a year ago. I went to the range contemplating all the comments I had read concerning inaccuracy and sure enough, I was all over that target from 10 yards.

I had a gunsmith work the trigger and add adjustable sights but he insisted that all else was good (barrel, bushing, etc) as delivered. When I got the pistol back I still couldn't hit anything. When I handed it to my gunsmith, he put five rounds in the bullseye while creating "one" hole. Needless to say, my attitude toward my SA 1911 changed following that demonstration and I left the range with some fairly impressive targets of my own that afternoon. I love my 1911 and have to get to the range at least once a week to get my recoil fix. I shoot better with the 1911 than with any of my three 9mm pistols and certainly like the shape of the holes better than those left by my Mark IIs.

As Yogi Berra once put it, "Ninety percent of the game is physical, the other half is mental." He may have been on to something.

[cdburklund]

As a medic way back in the very early 70's, I was issued an old well worn gov't 1911. It was heavy but it could shoot. I liked it because I could load up with my gear for SAR and go out on a jaunt with the guys and still carry ammo and a weapon and not feel like I was carrying as much weight as some guys. ( I only weighed 145 back then) A guy could easily end up carrying so much NECESSARY stuff you couldn't move as fast as you wanted to when the body waste came into contact with the spinning ventilation device. It gave me manueverability.
In the 35 years plus years, I have been an ER Nurse in the 3 busiest ER's in my state. I have never seen anyone survive a head shot with a .45. I once took care of one guy with 3, count'em 3 taps to the head from a 9. He lost some gray matter but he came in talking and what he lost he apparently didn't need.
Consequently, my primary house gun is a Caspian framed 1911, looks just like what I carried back in the day except for the Pachmyer grips. Don't leave home without it.
Oh wacurry, you sound like a wannabe, when I was in we had really bad words for wannabes, none of them would I use in mixed company, but ee wouldn't want you with us, that would be mixed company.

[SGTKinsella]

Commenting on a broader topic, the one where everyone tears apart what Eric has to say in his posts:

It seems the Kit Up! site has not gotten as many posts from people other than Eric in the past three or four months (I didn't go back and check dates, I'm just basing this on my casual reading of this site ) so Eric, being one of the moderators, has had to fill in the empty space.

Every Soldier has an opinion about a piece of gear, and every Soldier has some kind of trick they used to get by in hard times (Sharing these opinions and tricks is the point of this feature). I would imagine that Eric is running low on stories and tricks to keep things going.

That means every armchair sniper, and "military buff" sees fit to tear him down. (unfortunately, I include myself in that category)

Give the guy a break. If you really think he's full of crap, go ahead and post something and tell everyone how much better it is than what Eric is posting.

[John W. Edinger]

I've never fired a pistol in my life and the largest rifle is a 12 gauge use in "turkey shoots" and even I understood what Mr. Daniel was saying in his article.

BTW, go troops, I appreciate the job you guys are doing. Wish the politicians would get out of the way and let you guys finish the job like it should be done.

God bless America and the men and women who serve and protect it....

[TwinEdge]

Hey guys,Sgts. and Lts. this is all quiet understandable...Even though I have not shot one of these 1911s,and it don't mean i can't shoot...
But,don't you think that MR.ERIC has weak forarms,and wrists and thats why he can't shoot straight,hehehehe....Thats my 1 cent on the subject...

[JSFMike]

When I was assigned to a NavWeps Station, the gunny sgt in charge of the guard force made sure us Navy officers could shoot. He took personal charge of each of us so we could qualify with each firearm on the station. For sidearms, he worked on the pistols and after many firings at the range, adjusted the sights, grips, and triggers to each of our personal characteristics. We were assigned one each, tailor-made sidearm, M-16, M-14, and shotgun for the 3 year tour. That's what makes a shooter a expert marksman.

[H C Juengst]

I was on a Brigade pistol team in 1965, USAPAC matches in So. Korea.
I had to take a pistol from the Battery Armory and when I went to sign one out the armorer showed me the entire stock of "45's" and told me to disasemble them and find matching serial numbers if possible.
when the orginal issue was made to the unit all of the arms were "deep cleaned". They were disasembled and cleaned in big vats then the parts were reasembled without regard to serial numbers.

[Chris Bailey]

Funny what I read in a tactical gun magizine that the US military may go back to the .45 due to lack of 9mm stopping power. The pistol they are considering is the Smith & Wesson MP 45.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=53909&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=26807&isFirearm=Y

[Dale]

As a marine attached to S.T.A. Plt in the early 90's I had the rare option of choosing between the new barretta, or the reliable colt. My father and grandfather both carried the colt and had nothing but praise for the worlds longest serving military firearm. What wacurry doesn't realize is that ALL military weapons have more rounds fired through them than any one man could fire in a lifetime, let alone afford. As a marine sniper I require the best accuracy out of my weapons, and the barrel/bushing swap was just the thing to tighten up my groups. Another little trick was to apply some electical tape in several layers to the sides of the slide and then GENTLY clamp it in a vise to tighten the slide to the reciever. This should be done with care and supervision. With every other marine on the qualifying line "popping" off rounds with thier new M-9's, the roar of the old 1911 was a pleasant surprise to the old range officer. Not to mention that I qualified as a pistol EXPERT, four times with that "old, inaccurate, obsolete, piece of junk", with my highest score of 198 out of a possible 200 points. wacurry can KISS MY JARHEAD ASS!!!!

[Bob Bell]

I am both a NRA pistol instructor,IPSC,and a retired combat pistol instruction in law enforcement. I have shot almost every handgun that is made. I am a former Marine,[RVN]. The only handgun that I ve ever felt comfortable with was a .45 colt or clone. I can tell you that
I've used Brownell's for decades. If you would like an even tighter group, purchase a Barstow barrel and bushing set. You do have to decide which barrel you want, target or combat. IF you shoot paper, get the target. If you carry get the combat series... Also, there are some other considerations. You can send the gun to someone like Terry Tussey, in Ca. for the best combat action job I've seen. He has done 3 of my .45's. Chip Mc Cormick, is also great, a little pricey. A major consideration are mags. get good ones, like Chip McCormick, Millett, or others. The worst case is have a tuned .45 and it jams because of a cheap mag... good luck and good shooting....Semper Fi

[Balls Ballard]

It's been many years too remember everything but... after my discharge, I found a decent looking Colt M1911A1 and like others, I was all over the target. So, I purchased a kit consisting of a barrel, barrel bushing, barrel link and pin, the kit included an 'extra' spring, - I should say -'additional' spring [which I installed but cannot remember it's function].

Afterwards, I blew them away - nobody could touch me! A few years later (with both me and my .45 older) a couple of young crackerjacks kept up with me. until I swithched to 'match' ammo.

As Andy Warhol would agree - That was my "fifteen minutes of fame!"

As for WACurry's comment - I couldn't agree with him more!

Signed 'a decorated Vietnam Combat Veteran with two tours of duty on the "most-northern-Allied-outpost" in South Vietnam.' - Balls

[KJ]

I too carried the .45 as a submarine quarterdeck watch and below decks watch. We got to carry five round in a magazine which was not in the weapon. I qualified on the .45, long nose .38 and the M-14 and actually scored better on the .45 and the M-14 than the weapons (TM) guys. I was just a knuckle dragging aux. Machinist's Mate (SS).

But more to the point. The .45 when out of ammo made one heck of a rock or club. The 9mm would probably shatter.

[Dan Post]

In 1968, while at A school at the GLAKES Naval Base, I went to the range, and hoped to qualify for a marksman badge. As an ET, and due to ship out on a carrier, I figured the only way to get anything other than the 'gedunk medal' was to try for a marksman ribbon.
I was issued a 1911, as it did not have the rebate at the frame behind the trigger, and it was so old that the range office told me not to put more than 5 rounds in the magazine. He also cautioned me to ease the slide forward as they had had some mishaps when a slide went forward on these old pistols, breaking off the sear. The result was that after the first round went off, the last two were usually in the ceiling! Needless to say, the accuracy was not such that I ever qualified. Alas.
Now, I ususally plink with a Walther P-38 or Radom VIS35, but have had the opportunity to use a friend's NEW Remington 1911A1, and it is a fine piece of machinery. Even with the factory barrel and bushing, you can get 2" groups offhand at 25yds without too much squintin' and squeezin'.
I would imagine that with some MagSafe rounds, it would definitely be a stopper.

[Will C]

Interesting comments on perhaps John Browing's best design. As originally designed and produced during World War 1, the Model 1911 was finely finished with very tight manufacturing tolerances which resulted in excellent accuracy but occasional malfunction in the muddy trenches.

After the war, in the 1920's the pistol was redesigned as the Model 191lA-1 to correct some of the problems noted during WW1. The flat mainspring housing was replaced with an arched design to improve (?) pointability. The grip safety tang was lengthened and the hammer spur shortened to alleviated pinching of the hand by the hammer in recoil. The frame was milled out slightly behind the trigger and a shorter trigger was installed to help shooters with smaller hands.

The one thing that they didn't do was to install better sights. That was and is the major problem in shooting a GI issue .45 well without a consierable amount of training and practice.

I was present at Dam Neck in the mid 60's when some of the Navy's inventory of Model 1911 and Model 1911A-1 pistols were checked out prior to return to Colt for repair and rebuild. Just for curiousity some of us who were experienced .45 shooters took these "worn out" pistols to the range just to see how bad they were. Shooting GI 230 grain hardball ammo, we were suprised to see that even the worst ones were still capable of grouping in the 3" to 4" range at 25 yards which is good enough for your average combat use.

Since most all of our national pistol shooting records at Camp Perry were shot with Model 1911 type pistols, it should be obvious that there is nothing wrong with the basic design. Most of the stories about the inaccuracy of the Model 1911 series are repeated by folks who just didn't get the right kind of training.

[Andy J.]

I recall several trips to the Chesepeak Bay in Virginia for disposal of 1911A1 pistols, Ammo, and other surplus of the like. You name it, we threw it in the water. Much of this equiptment was still in good working condition just no records to justify why it was there.

[Richard Marksberry]

As a former Marine I never found a 1911-A1 that wasn't capable of staying inside 12" at 25 yards.

However I have found many once a year shooters that found it hard to even print on the paper.

I'm not impressed with the little 9mm Pea Shooters.

[Anthony Randall (Razorblade) SGT USMC (ret.) 0331/8532]

Well here's my couple of cent's into the matter. Having been in the Marine Corps as a grunt from 1979 thru 1996 I can say that I have had the pleasure of using the M1911A and the M9 for many years, not to toot my own horn I am a Expert Rifleman 10th Award and an Expert Pistol 7th Award, using the M1911A was my baptistism of fire when I first shot for score with hand me downs 1911's that we received from the Army, anyway when I first went to the pistol range we BZOed and then were allowed to use pasties to after we got our POA (point of aim) but that was only with the 1911A's I scoreed the very first time a High Expert, I then went to FAST Company M.C. Security Force Battalion where we received M9's the first in the Corps I might add and at Northwest, anyway the M9's are all right if you apply failure to stop drill's you know two to the chest one to the head in 6-9 seconds as we all had to do to graduate from school and we didn't have to worry about AD's unless you were a idiot while handling the M9 weapon. It was phased in only because of WM's and men with small hands plus it held 15 rounds, I have one no but I use Hydroshock and other "rounds" if you know what I mean for my personal carry. You can stay in the fight longer with 15 well aimed rounds versus 7 well aimed rounds. "Sight alignment sight picture, slow steady squeeze to the rear"....OOOhh Rahh!!

[Richard Marksberry]

Admirable Razorblade,

Though it concerns me that we keep repeating history deliberately. If you don't have HPs the 9 ain't a stopper when his adrenalin is pumping and determined to get to you. More rounds in the mag ain't the answer nor does it inspire better marksmanship from the new grunts. The M16 is another example of reducing recoil to reduce flinching but you are still packing the weight with less punch. Bring back the M14 and the 1911-A1 and give em something to really fight with.

As a matter of fact I hear that the .45 is back in trials again.

[Bob Wills]

Wow, got a lot of bitter "commentors" - so much so I went back and reread the article. When I first qualified with a 1911 (in 1971), I qualified a high expert. The second time I was lucky to qualify marksman. The difference was the second armory gun was very sloppy. I now own three 1911s, all are very tight and very accurate.

[Britt]

Interesting comment by wacurry... I am confused though as Mr Daniel does not present himself as either an expert on shooting or a crack shot, merely as someone who discovered one way to bring his groups down to a more reasonable size.

If wacurry has a personal grudge against Mr. Daniel, I suggest that this is the wrong venue in which to discuss it, perhaps another, more suitable venue could be found.

I was in the 10th Mountain Division from 86 - 89 (2/22 light infantry) and we were issued .45's qualified, then issued beretta's... all before 1990.

[Norvin Gandolph]

It is very interesting that wacurry has not responded to any of the criticizing being thrown his way...kinda like the guy who starts a bar fight and then sneaks out the back when it gets to hot.

Norvin
1st batt. 14th Inf.
an khe
rvn 70/71

[Richard Marksberry]

Come on guys, what you have here is a person that never did anything for his country eccept pay his taxes, maybe..

Either that or he's USAF and we know they can't shoot BB guns without closing their eyes and flinching.

[Noah Dillion]

Dajavu...
When I reported to my unit at Soc Trang Army Airfield in Nov 1968, Iwas sent to the range to qualify with the 45 cal.
I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, so I went back and checked out a 38 and quailfied with it.
I always wondered why, I love to shoot, and have done so since I was old enough to pick up a Daisy "Red Rider".
Thanks for the answer to a 40 year old mystery...