Our friends over at Soldier Systems Daily had an interesting post on the Army’s progress in Phase IV of their camo search.
According to a new RFI posted on FedBizOpps, the Army is asking industry to provide the service with their ideas for three different camo schemes to cover woodland/jungle, desert and so-called “transitional” (which could mean a garrison UCP or urban scheme). The Army also wants to see ideas for a universal pattern for all body armor and other gear that a Joe would wear, presumably so Soldiers wouldn’t have to switch out their OTVs for each environment.
The Rangers have done well in the past with their Ranger Green gear and the Corps works well with their coyote brown stuff as well.
This is a huge deal and could mean the service has thrown its hands up and gone back to the idea of a spread of camos for different battlegrounds. But it also could mean the service looks at all these patterns and goes “let’s stick with just one.”
We’ll see. But it’ll be awesome to watch what industry comes up with.
And good on SSD for picking this out.
{ 53 comments… read them below or add one }
So… i better not invest in Multicam kit. How much money have we waste on uniform research to date? I mean honestly why can't we all use MARPAT and just call it the something else.
Ready for this: Desert MARPAT ,Woodland MARPAT , Winter MARPAT, and UCP Delta. Guess what goes awsome with all of those for armor…..Coyote Brown. I know crazy idea. I'm with you Tmash, this problem couldve been solved years ago if the Army would stop wasting money trying to be goddamn individuals with the Tacti-Cool we need our own look crap. Just suck it up, buy some MARPAT, take out the EGA, and call it something stupid.
MARPAT is awesome. i have a set of it and let me tell you, in their respective environments there is nothing better.
Let's get a true next-gen camo pattern, decided by researchers and scientists, not army brass. Do the 3-4 patterns, with common pattern for gear, then Congress should make every service (Except Marines, they're Marines) use these patterns for at least 5 years. Do it properly, do a proper competition, I don't see any problem with this.
I think this makes perfect sense, although all the crusty old fogies would probably whine about how superior BDU's are and how we should go back to starched battle uniforms and polished boots. Hell, we should just throw out 50 years of camouflage research and battle testing and just go back to olive drab WWII uniforms.
Not a bad idea when you have to get a new kind of uniform every six months. Here's another idea. Every time we attack some place, we put up Halloween music, holograms, card board soldiers, find out where they get the water and put drugs in it before we attack..etc. It'll be cheaper than all the different uniforms. Maybe we find out who their 'Superhero is and we mimic his voice, " Abdhul! I know what you're doing and you better stop. Put down your guns and surrender.
If the could purchase Marpat the army probably would, but that is kind of hard to due since the Marine Corps has a patent out for that. The army waists to much money on uniforms. In the last 10 years they have probably spent more than a couple of billion dollars on uniforms. Pick on and stick with it for more than 6 months.
Im a civilian and i was able to purchase official USMC MARPAT. If i can the army can.
Do you really need a camo pattern for the rear. How about Foilage green uniform or coyote brown solid color uniforms. Does it really matter what color you wear back home?
So you want even more uniforms,. Let them have the three, summer, winter and transitional. Forget about the additional green and brown
It's not like the enemy doesn't know who to shoot at. I would much prefer that the DoD spend money on up armoring bicycles for the new 'green' army. It makes as much sense…
They never should have taken my BUDs from me. We wouldn't be have this discussion.
I miss the BDU's so much. the Missus laughed at me the first time I put on ACUs
Same on the AF side. BDUs rocked. I have spent more money on the ACU in two years than I did on the BDU in six to eight years. AF ABU — FAIL
I'd rather wear olive drab for jungle and woods and khaki or coyote for desert than the Army keep wasting money on a ridiculous patter that they think is the end all of all patterns.
I've worn ACU's and the cut of the uniform is horrible, but UCP is one of the worst patterns ever.
I like how how the Marine Corps has been quietly chuckling at the Army for the last decade because they got it right the first time with their camo schemes LOL
Summed it up right there
No joke. My uncle is in the army and I give him crap all the time for his ACU's. What a waste.
Come on everyone we all know that the scammers must make their money, it wouldn't be the norm if they just put out the right thing under budget and on time now would it?. This sort of thing has been going on since the very start of our great nation. There will always be the rats who could care less about our own who put their lives on the line while they co;;ect their blood money. Funny we don't see special investigations from congress about the massive waste from the pentagon, hmmm i wonder why? no not really because the scammers pay roll runs very deep into congress.
If the Army put as much money and effort into getting better rifles and ammo for the troops as they did in the uniforms then maybe we would've had the 6.5 round and M4 replacement or something. I wish they'd get their priorities straight!
Here’s an idea, use a woodland digital, a desert digital, and when your home, who gives a ****! How about the idea of wearing a class B uniform when you’re in garrison, it worked before. The Army is starting the ASU that is all you need when not deployed. If you work in the motor pool or some other job that requires physical exertion, the post commander can make the call what to wear. They make up all the other rules on post. As far as all of you conspiracy theorists, give it a rest. If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem and drive on.
je suis un haitien et j’aimerais etre un soldas americain
Si vous êtes haïtienne et que vous voulez être un soldat américain, alors vous devriez devenir un citoyen américain en premier. Merci de votre intérêt.
Translation: If you're Haitian and want to be an American soldier, then you should become an American citizen first. Thanks for your interest.
How about got back to the BDU idea. One camo everyone wears. Then just have a desert one for when you deploy that easy. If the military just adopted the Marpat for all 4 services they would save plenty of time and money. Why does the AF and Navy need their own uniform?
The Navy's makes sense since there's is meant as a dungarees replacement and not a BDU replacement and is meant for shipboard duty only. For ground duty I know that Corpsman simply wear MARPATs, SEALs wear whatever they want and they also have something AOR(?) which closely resembles MARPAT, and I have no idea what SeaBees wear these days.
The Air Force's ABUs were a stupid idea made even worse by the fact that most, if not all, of the feedback that they got from their SpecOps types was ignored when the ABUs were still in the development stages. So instead of designing a uniform that would actually work for their people who really needed a good functional uniform they just decided to ignore their needs and do what they wanted disregarding the fact that if they made the suggested changes it would work just as well for their regular personnel.
Seabees wear BDU’s when their home port or deployed to any were but the sand box. We wear DCU’s (BDU just tan in color) when we go to the sand. Our new uniform will be very similar to MARPAT, do out late this yr or early next yr.
How much money has the tax payers spent onthe th changing of the uniform we have now. Here we go again this current uniform was tested for forever and now we want to replace it???
Ok……so maybe we need some sort of better pattern for Army uniforms. But along with the pattern we need to shoot the first idiot who recommends velcro! What a stupid, stupid idea. Buttons may be ancient, but the worked in the rain. And material that does not rip like a cheap garbage sack would be nice. The ripstop used in the old BDU's was really good.
hey any thing that helps our nations finest is worth the investment period !
Used to be the Nations finest. Noew we got a bunch of sniveling babies, that think of the military as just a way to go to school, who cry if they dont like a part of the uniform, and get butt hurt if someone correct them. As for the uniform, these suck, they dont last as long as they used to, and the velcro ? dont even get me started.
why does everyone complain. all i see is "new 6.5 round" or "new multicam high speed gear". none of that will make a single difference at all. use what youve got and ge the mission done like in the past(u know; every war weve fought in ever). also, its your duty as an american citizen to pay taxes which the military is using to defend our nation so quit your bitchin. ps velcro sucks just dont be lazy and sew it on. have some pride
I've heard the Army has dicovered a whole hidden (forgotten) warehouse in W. Virginina stocked full of WWI wool/ cotton Doughboy Uniforms. the Old Pan style Steel Pot Helmet, Sam Brown Belt, Leggings and Boon-docker boots. To Save money, Two Divisions will be issued this Uniform.
Question is…which two????
The Skinny is they called all the Division Commanders up to draw straws…
Hopefully they'll find a warehouse full of WWII Herring Bone, M-1 Steel pots, Canvas cartidge belts with one quart metal canteen, Leggings and Boon-dockers for another "Lucky" two Divisions…
The Marines are the ones who initiated the Digital Camo patterns, and after printing a variety of different combinations of colors sent them to marine Scout Snipers to view in different terrain and vegetation. That's who they picked the two patterns they are using now. But the great advantage to computer controlled digital printing is that the manufacturer can just input different data and get different combinations and patterns with no difficulty. There were a couple different "Nam Leaf" patterns in the very late 60's and through the 70's that the Marines and SpecOps guys used. The Woodland pattern may have been fine for parts of Europe in the early fall or winter, but was far from a universal pattern. The "Chocolate Chip" and other patterns used in Desert Storm were attempts at Universal desert Patterns.The ESRD (Engineer Research and Development lab) used to come up with the patterns. Some major or Lt Col used to get a promotion by coming up with new patterns evry few years. It's just like weapons and equipment adoption. Guys make their careers of them.
The Navy even issues a Blue Pattern Digital Fatigue/Utility to it's crews now.
the army can't make up their mind. remember the movie on the M2-bradley fighting vehicle "Pentagon Wars". maybe we will have part two -Designing men.
why do thy need cammo on a flight deck of a carrier. the blue jeans uniform works well. want to make the polits miss the trees on the deck.
I've wished army didn't switch to that horrible ACU. Barely passable for Iraq. Stand out in woodland and just all around bad pattern. Should just stayed with BDU and Desert BDU and just re-design the uniform with those patterns.
But I bet they keep the velcro and pin on stuff.
The Navy Working Uniform pattern is design to hide dirt and paint, not as any kind of camouflage. Pretty stupid, I think, that's what coveralls are for. But, what can you expect form the people who now dress our sailors in Hitler Youth uniforms?
Haha nice one
I’m so glad I left before this fashion show kicked off.
Marines Digital Green Camo is the best!
One thing this great Goverment of ours is good for, pissing all of our money away. I can’t see the reasoning behind camo of any type for the deck hands on Navy ships and a seprate pattern for the fly guys. The old woodland pattern would have still worked for them as well or better then the new ****. I don’t understand why DOD has stopped the release of all old style bdu’s and used acu,dcu and marp uniforms at the DOD auctions. Its a way to recover a fraction of the money spent on them and to reuse it on the development of other patterns. I am amazed at the wast of the Mil, there shredding all the uniforms now, gov at work!!!!
PS: lets not forget to keep paying our incomtax that comes from our hard earned blood,sweat and tears money to the liars and thieves we elect to spend it as they see fit. If we stoped paying these basterds they would have to stop spending our money on the stupid **** that we are talking about. YOU HAD TO GET ME STARTED!!!!!!
Here is what you need. Woodland BDU's and DCU's. Anything else is fluff. Big waste of money as well.
Thank you!!!! I agree 100%
the Marines have the right mix. The Army fumbles and bumbles while the Corps does more with less. MARPAT 4 ALL..or Multi-cam…?
Agreed. We should have gone MARPAT DOD wide from the beginning and saved billions. If they're really dead-set on a universal pattern, then Multi-cam is the best thing around to date. Maybe use Multicam on all our gear and only change between desert/woodland uniforms? Or would that still contrast too much? We would save so much money if they would have just done one really good unbiased scientific study and knock this, "Every branch with their own uniform" BS off. This coming from a currently deployed Army guy riding the waves of change. Oh yeah, and Velcro/pin-on badges and the beret are retarded. Makes me want to transfer to the Marines. Seriously, please un-do that! Okay, bitch complete, back to work.
I'm Army, but the Marines got it right, at least halfway. Body armour plate carriers and a neutral colored LBV with olive drab bdu's is the way to go.
I think you need a camo for the major environments. Woodland works in summer temperate and jungle environments, desert works in fall and non snow winter environments. Maybe we could do what the Germans did with their SS and Wehrmacht uniforms and make them reversible and use them for two different environments. The were the masters of equipment., they just didn't have enough to win. We adopted the sturmgewehr with the M-16, the stahlhelm with the PASGT, lets do a modification of their camo patterns too.
Ok, so here’s the deal – yes we all know that our Government wastes money on a multitude of things. It isn’t just the “Army” that has wasted money on changing uniforms. Think about all of the branches who switched patterns over the last 5 years. Now thing about all of the secondary providers who have been raping all of us with their pattern version of every backpack/camelback/notepad/jockstrap ********. It’s all about the money, and in the end it’s really us as soldiers who gets screwed every time on it. We’re taught from day one that everything should be uniform/dress right dress. We get a new uniform – our old stuff doesn’t match, we go out and buy what does match. And the big picture billions of dollars money market keeps rolling. It may seem like a trivial thing, but if they, and I mean the Pentagon, and our Chief of Staff would put a stop to this retardedness it would help everyone save, soldiers, citizens, and the government alike.
Never minded OD Jungles or ERDL Jungles and jungle boots, though the M1969 flak jacket wasn't worth much.
why cant they get it through their head that we need at least 2 patterns…. multicam is probably about the best if you HAD TO HAVE 1 pattern for everything… weve all seen that that UCP only blends in with itself haha. we saw marines in iraq with desert marpats, it blended far better than our ACU…. what was really so wrong with the old BDU/DCU system? at least the DCU had colours that matched the environment. more than i can say for the UCP. the ACU isnt bad as a uniform goes, but the pattern is useless compared to other stuff that is out there. why cant the big army listen to us? listen to the ones that deploy to places! damn desk drivers dont know jack….. end of rant….
hey army, remember when we had usefull uniforms? the so called UCP universal camo pattern, i junk. not just my opinion, but the thumbs down are far more than thumbs up for this stupid pattern that does not blend into anything. we took a step backwards going to it. the old days of BDU/DCU actually worked. why cant people understand this?
can i get a ROGER THAT ?
ROGER THAT!!!!
im not far behind. 3 years to go, and i can wear anything i want. many of us oppose all these new designs, because they dont work. it started going down hill when they issued black beret for everyone and made rangers get a new color. its been goin downhill ever since… ill be glad to see them get rid of the ACU…. Army Crap Uniform hehe :)