Colt shows off its gas piston version of the M4 tricked out with a new folding and collapsible stock for vehicle crews, airborne troops , Spec Ops and aviators.
SHOT Video: Colt Gas Piston M4 with New Folding Stock
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{ 97 comments… read them below or add one }
Thanks for the video! I find it interesting that the stock folds along the left side.
It seems like most carbines I've in the last year fold along the right side.
One request: If you can do something about the backlight setting on your video,
that would be great. The bright backdrop of downrange made it difficult for me to see
much detail on this video for at least the first half.
Colt's forward assist is on the right side of the upper receiver, necessitating the stock fold left.
Here's a different video of the Colt SCW (Sub-Compact Weapon) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq10sk69zIs
I would have liked to seen a live demo. Also he should have made his presentation a littlemore consice.
I can imagine having live fire going on around you make you a little nervous but as a salesman/ presenter he could've given somemore detail.
But thanks.
Too bad the demonstrator didn't step out of the shadow so the video would be clear. He should have worn a light color shirt and that would have helped. Interesting but poor video.
The ejection port is on the right, if you were to fire it with the stock folded and it folded on the right you would have some real troubles bro.
Hmm….gas piston, folding stock, short assault rifle….AKS-74U anyone? :)
I hope you don't think the AK-74 was the first time this configuration was considered
someone's been playing to much call of duty
i hope you do know that the AKS-74U originally got its short AR type deal from the CAR-15 right? Not only that there have been gas pistons in AR platforms before, namely the AR-18. Both of these were invented pre-Vietnam 10 years before the AK-74.
thought the same thing
Did I see and hear the guy fire off full auto in his demo ?
I think he did fire off a few rds, look at the expression on his face when it happens
I think that you are right. I wouldn't want to be a camera man around this guy. Stupid
he didnt shoot theres no mag in it
lame. just get a acr.
ACR is much more expensive to produce, and the Colt system is already proven to work.
The colt system is crap and all the guys already proving the scar down range prefer it do to less stopages and better versitility due to its folding stock, gas piston system and interchangeble barrels! insted of buying the same old revamped crap lets do some real testing this time!
Colt?………yawn!
Colt has had pistol systems available since the '60s, but the Army wasn't interested.
AR series of rifles have always had a 'piston' – it's in the bolt, it has piston rings for gas sealing, the gas is pied in, pushes against the bolt/piston, and forces the bolt back. Making a sooty mess in the process.
gas/piston is more reliable, its all about $$. I wonder wat a G-36C goes for? All those billions spent on weapon systems and they forgot about the ground pounder when it comes to fielding the finest weapons.
The civilian version of the G36, the SL-8, is listed at $2,450 on HK's website. Wouldn't shock me if the price of a G36C wasn't too far from that number.
The military/LE cost of the G36 is under $600 IIRC.
H&K won't blink twice ripping off some lowly civilian… their bread and butter comes from mil/LE contracts.
There are different definitions of reliable. By nature of having more parts, a piston gun offers more opportunities for mechanical failure. Also, the additional, and reciprocating, mass creates a noticeable shift of the weapon's center of gravity each shot, slowing followup shots and reducing accuracy.
The advantage is that the gas residue is limited to the piston and sleeve assembly at the front of the gun.
If mechanical failure occurs in the piston and op rod, the weapon is nonfunctional. A gas system failure on a standard M16 means it can still operate as a manual straight pull weapon.
There have been piston conversions available from a dozen manufacturers since the 60s. None have caught on in any market, because they don't offer significant improvements. Even the vaunted claims of running cooler are a matter of a few degrees.
Conversely, moving the action spring up over the receiver allows for a folding stock, yes, but it also creates additional mass shifting in the firing cycle, and is more complex and therefore harder to repair if it does fail.
This is not to say these concepts are not worth pursuing, but don't assume they're a magic fix.
Uhm, yeah. The G36 ain't all that and a bag of chips. Between the ergonomics (or lack thereof) of the charging handle and the optics suite abortion, I will stick with a M4, thank you.
colt is finally waking up to the music…
Maybe here in the near future they will do away with gas operated piston/impingent systems and they will go with a solenoid. Sounds crazy doesn't it? but it can and will be done, it will have a greater rate of fire and twice as accurate. It is a very simple method with easier maintenance and very dependable for all weather conditions. Impossible many say but "they" said the same thing about human flight but look we have jets now, go figure?. This patent is still in the beggining stages but will have it worked out with all the bugs (as with any new weapon) soon within a 2 year period. Keep a look out and the doubters will see the first tests on you tube. 1) the weapon is lighter 2) it will have the things every SOF/SEAL/gov't agency could ever want 3) can be adapted for any caliber of choice and tooless. Sounds something like right out of buck rogers? 4) doesn't need any batteries and will be able to have a charge bar so no more always needing batteries for optics/lasers and so on. Yep laugh big time!! until you see it and go "what do you know it does work".
Yup, that'll work fine! when does the solar powered version come on-line?
And what happens if they ever get hit by an EMP? I can understand why the Gov still uses the gas powered.
you said it electric will it be protected from EMPs? since thats also around. got to remeber all wars have ECW im placed
ok karma. you must know a lot about weapons
i honestly gotta say that i hope they use the same grade of ammo as the one that is going to be used in combat. The last thing we need is an other m16 problem like the one in vietnam
That problem was caused by not cleaning the magazine/ammo/weapon.You only fail to do that once!!!!!!
Selenoids are being used but not as actual parts inside weapom but they are used as trigger extencions like the onces inside the coax machine gun inside the M1A1 Abrams main battle tank also for the 50cal. sniper system that goes infront and on top of the main gun of the Abrams tank. i think that the best think that can help in the military is the change of bullets design like for exsample the slap round for the 50 cal machine gun. we sbould use tbat round for all different size weapons.
Aks-74 I agree!!! Very good weapon with awesome knock down power. The military is going with less people and highly technical equipment which means you want to be able to quickly put the enemy down not wound him that went out when they started paying soldiers to get out of the army.
The AKs-74 has less knock down power than the M4! The AKs-74 shoots the 5.45×39 (56gr at 2900fps) and the M4 shoots the 5.56×45(62gr at 3100fps).
Now, if only they could make it in .30 caliber, it wouldn't still be a mouse gun.
Black gun against a black shirt background. No bueno. Can't see the gun well enough. Change to a white or yellow shirt.
If it isn't long range and .308 then you might as well just pick up an AK. M16/M4's are how old, and how proven???? AK's suck why?????
I pick off intruders everyday with cheap Romanian WASR's $1000 + AR are a waste of money.
"AK's suck why????" Because the max range of a 7.62×39 is barely 300m while a 5.56mm goes over 500m. And you don't use accuracy and AK as synonyms. AKs are simple weapons that almost any idiot can use; one of the reasons there are so many AKs out there is that the Soviets gave them to client states and people they were trying to influence.
Colt,
Give me a list of dealers where I can purchase the new 2011 M4 folding stck rifle?
email:hawkeye3489@comcast.net
Thought it was interesting that a 'high tech' business wouldn't know NOT to film a black gun against the black shirt of the operator. Like anyone can see the features they are stressing !
the should go back to a wood stock, you could see that better, it would also have more knock-down power.
7.62 mm max effective range is not 300 meters.
They are in the ranges of over 500 to 800 yards.
Mind you, this is only stock.
A Basic AK application will allow you up to 400 yards of fair accuracy.
ANY idiot can grab and operate ANY weapon system.
I dont know whay the army doesnt just go with the scar or P-30 as they were planning I know the scar is expensive but so is trying to modify a weapon we already have plus another bidder has already come out with a folding stock to the left side! Wake up Army! and Get with it!
Well said 556user! The other thing that I never hear anyone talk about is the ammo quality. M855 rounds are not destructive, period. If we were able to use the same ammo that we can in the civilian world, it would be a whole different story. I don’t need a lecture on why we use this round either. Pick up some OTM rounds and do some testing, and let me know what happens. There will be a lot of jaws dropping because it can be a destructive caliber if the right bullet is used.
M855 (penetrator) rounds were developed by the Germans ie H&K to produce a more stable round that would penetrate masonary and other forms of cover in Europe during the cold war. They are more accurate at ranges over 300M. Ask any target shooter. The older, less stable 55gr 5.56 did cause more tissue damage due to "keyholing" Ask any Viet Nam vet
i absolutely love coming on here and listening to all the couch ninjas talk about how much they know about this and that, how many of you have actually shot someone with a 5.56 round? not on call of duty or medal of honor, but for real, guess what happens? they die. just go ahead and ask the millions of people who have been killed by that round, might be hard cause they're dead. until you carry this weapon through an alley in iraq or up a mountain in afghanistan and look thru the optic at the man shooting at you, and then pull the trigger, shut the hell up.
You have that right. 556 works just fine and you can carry three times tha ammo. That is not something you are concerned with if you are carrying your ammo around in a pickup truck.
Well said. Those that haven't (paper punching know it alls') won't have a clue to the meaning of your response.
Yep, been there, done that. I have also done the same with the 7.62X51 and given the choice I will take the 7.62X51 every time. I agree with you about the couch ninjas though.
And you claim you need to shoot someone 100k times in the chest to make them die.
EnWhere do I get one??ter text right here!
Very Poor advertisment… Poor display, black on black imagery, inarticulate presenter. Who's going to purchase on the basis of a shoddy display like that? A lazy recording…speaks volumes for the product….even if it eventually proves to be a useful tool.
If I could have the machine pistol of choice it'd be a MP 40 but no one'll build that again…..
The MP 40 was/is an excellent, very dependable shooter. Norway used left over Wermaht MP 40s until the 90s as a reserve forces and armor crewman weapon. Living proof that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
If you want to increase the effectiveness of any 9mm SMG, put a 10"-12" barrell on it. The increased velocity will increase energy and therfore terminal ballistics.
anybody know where i can purchase the new m4 if so please let me know retired army sargent ;email; lilacy69@yahoo.com thank you
sorry to say seebee23 – but international law (1925) says we use Full Metal Jacket rounds only! Until the politicians get their heads out of their respective a##! Until the laws be changed. Yes I've killed with a number of rounds 7.62 M-14, 7.62 AK, and 5,56 M-16/A/1A2/A4 over the years I was in the Corps. 1970-1993 GySgt USMC 0369. Any improvement for crew weapons instead of a 9mm pistol is better due to range, accuracy and fire power! .
International Law ? could that be the problem POLITICIANS with there heads up there asses ? PC = dont want to offend the enemy that's trying to kill you ? sound like that the real enemy is within our own boarders !
We can legally use 77 gr OTM ammo , and are doing so in Iraq & Afghan theatres …. much more accurate & deadly than M855.
You are right Gary. The problem is, we are the only country that is hammered if we don't play by these idiotic rules! Of course it's very simple to make an HP round out of an FMJ round, heh, heh, heh!!!
Reality is Colt saw they were going to loose their only customer if they didnt change. Yes the 7.62x39s range is smaller but if you went with a 6.8x45mm (.270cal bullet) it would have the same range, same flat trajectory and more stopping power. I’m not a couch ninja i’m on my second year in the stan and third overall. I hate the 5.56mm round, its sad I need two rounds (at least) to take a full size man down. The piston is more reliable and was used on the M1 and M14, the AK and all other combat weapons besides the ****** AR15. Its sad Colt had to fix one of the two major complaints about the weapon only after seeing they were going to lose.
Wow, 7.62 has a smaller range than the 5.56? You knwo nothing of calibers. 7.62 is right in line with a 30 caliber,(.308-AK, .30-06 M-14), where as the 5.56 is more like a .223. 7.62 is a heavier bullet with more powder behind it. The 5.56 travels a little faster due to its weight but has no knockdown power. The military is smart trying to adapt the 6.8. It has less recoil than the 7.62 and more knockdown power than the 5.56. Its a great choice. (Oh, and theres a reason the Marines still employ the M-14 as a modified sniper rifle. That being range and accuracy.)
Trey,
I think you’re actually a lil confused when it comes to calibers. As you began to point out, there are several types of 7.62/.30 cal rounds. However, the AK-47/AKM series of weapons does not fire the .308 Winchester, nor does the M-14 fire the .30-06. The AK fires a 7.62×39 round, which has significantly less power (and subsequently less range and accuracy) than the 7.62×51 round (aka .308 Winchester) fired from the M-14. Now, there are Russian/Soviet designed weapons that fire a 7.62 round with a max effective range of 800-1000 yards, but those fire the 7.62x54R round, which again is significantly more powerful than the 7.62×39 round. Also, the Marines use the M39 EMR (a highly upgraded M-14) primarily for designated marksmen and EOD, not scout snipers.
Mike
"…until you carry this weapon through an alley in iraq or up a mountain in afghanistan and look thru the optic at the man shooting at you, and then pull the trigger, shut the hell up…"
How about if you looked through iron sights at a pajama-clad VC under a jungle canopy? Could I have your permission to post then? Let me remind you, boy. Fire discipline is just as important for your mouth/keyboard as it is for your weapon. There are a lot of combat veterans here who have had bad experiences with the 5.56×45 NATO cartridge, and despise it bitterly. Their experiences are no less valid than yours, and they don't need your puerile high-speed/low-drag chest thumping. Anyone who'd tell a room full of vets to shut the hell up in my VFW gets their ass handed to them as they're escorted out the door.
Grow up, boy. NO BOY has the right to tell a man to "shut the hell up."
Personally you sound as immature as the last poster. Trying to throw your weight around and prove you're tougher than the next guy belies as much arrogance as actual experience. Besides, I think he was referring to the couch commandos, not vets. Just because you were issued the older, less reliable version doesn't give you the right to tell the newer guys that their rifle doesn't work. Go there and use what they are using, then state your opinion….
Jesus. What is it with kids nowadays? My original post, unlike yours, contained no ad hominem. For your information, I was also in Gulf War 1, both Desert Shield and Desert Storm. I HAVE been there, and I DO know what we are using, so your strawman arguments and character assassinations are invalid, as is your grammar. My two boys have served three tours in Iraq. They know what we're using, too. They don't gladly suffer fools, wannabe's, or loudmouths either, but if you feel good about poseurs telling you to "shut the hell up," fine, you have my permission to submit. I believe, on the other hand, that children should be rigorously corrected, lest their behavior become obnoxious. Fire discipline is the key to victory. Why would you accept anything less? And, if you would, tell me; To which VFW post do you belong?
I was speaking as an outside observer, and was responding to your references to serving in Vietnam. You indicated that the reason you didn't like the 5.56×45 cartridge was because of your experience with it in Vietnam. You were using that to tell the other guy that he should shut up about his take on the whole debate. That was what I was responding to. Looking at your experience, I stand corrected. However, you seem to have made the same mistake I did by assuming things about the other poster…….
I think Colt has seen the writing on the wall since we changed over to the H&K416. 4 times as reliable as a M4 which helps in combat. We have only kept the M4 and M16 because colt pays off the government. The 5.56 has good stopping power if the enemy is within 50 yards at 150 it usually takes 2 or 3 rounds to drop em. Your an idiot if you think the M4 and the 5.56 has not cost us lives.
I'm sure it has cost more enemies their lives than us, however…..
Professionals study logistics The million and fist round of 5.56 is infinitely more effective than 7.62 x 51 if your logistics train, from factory to shooter, will only support a million rounds of 7.62.
Would you Please start putting videos in a format so they can be viewed on a mobile device. It’s really annoying and I’m about to take you off of my reading list.
sheeeeesh… hmmmm lets see, it did not work… is that why they didn't fire it???
blah blah blah, Who cares, lets talk about the latest in ceramic knife technology and its applications in actual hand to hand combat. This is so boring
Useless video——perhaps you could remove ones head from obscured oriface and try again.
Waisting a whole clip of 5.56 rounds at 500 -800 yards also known as pray and spray or taking the enemy down with a single well placed .30 caliber round at 400 yards you choose.As for my 1* I will choose the later.One shot one kill 1* and having your buddies backs cause they got yours and nothing else matters!
**** all that ****. Give me a AR 15, and you’ll see how it doesn’t matter how you stylize a weapon, it just matters who’s behind it ;)
The gas piston on an M16 family wepon is nothing new. Eugene Stoner put it on his AR 18 which also had a folding stock and was introduced a little too late during the Viet Nam era, though the Navy SEALS used several different versions of the AR 18 in limited numbers. Politics caused the M16 to be accepted and prevented any new models from being accepted. I noticed that the version in the video had a very short barrel just like the old CAR 15. I carried one in Viet Nam for a period. The Car 15 had too much muzzle whip when on full auto and was loud enough too cause instant hearing damage. Ear pro was not an option in those days. There is also the velocity loss to consider. It was handy as hell due to its size. One piston conversion was the "Rhino Converstion" circa mid 70's-early 80's made by a gunsmith in Pa. One advantage was it reduced the rate of fire to about 600 rpm on full auto. Which reduces overheating and assists control.
Yea…I carried a CAR-15 (XM-177/GAU-5a) for 15 years in the Air Force SPs. I used it during Urgent Fury, Just Cause and Desert Shield/Storm Nice convenient weapon…it was used by K-9 troops, Flight Chiefs and mobile unit troops and the PJ and CCT guys. Small, easy to carry, inaccurate as hell over 100 meters, but you could certainly put some lead downrange. My question is why re-invent the wheel? If you want to continue using the 5.56 ammo, I'll bet Anniston Army Depot has hundreds, if not thousands in stock…..Hell, last time I was there going through the warehouse, I saw over 10K M-1 Garands new in the original cosmoline and wax paper wrap.
The biggest problem with gas blowing directly on the action is the quality of the propellent used in the cartridge. Big cause of malfunctions in Viet Nam and varys with ammo lots since. The original powders used by Stoner burned cleanly. This changed due to cost. Cheap powders burn dirty. Lowest bid won again. Lousy ammo for the M16 family could be a book in itself.
I have served in Viet Nam and Iraq More comments:
M4s vary in quality depeding on manufacture. Some are sweet and accurate as hell, others are puppys. I have carried three of them. Two were good. One was a jammer.
M14s function better in sand than any M16 or AR 10 family weapon. They come in 7.62 not 30/06 which is also excellent. (See previous comments)
5.56 shoots flatter and farther than the 7.2×39. Most AKs are junk. Country of manufacture is important.
While this weapon is intended for tank and air crews, I do think it will be better than an M9 with FMJs, but the 5.56 from this short barrel loses a lot of effectiveness (in M855 load). I do not wish to argue the 5.56 vs 7.62×51 debate, as both will kill you within their effective ranges and without cover. However, the 5.56 lacks a lot in the penetration department, and the M855 load can be greatly improved for immediate incapacitation. I like and own numerous 5.56, 7.62×39 and 7.62×51, but if I have to chose one weapon for an across the theater dependable performer, it will be the 7.62×51 in my M14 or in a SOCOM. I get tired of 5.56 bullets being stopped by thin cover that a 7.62×51 will punch right thru and go into the next zip code.
I do like the 6.8SPC, but I like my 6.5 Grendel EVEN MORE! Much better ballistics and penetration than even the 7.62×51 at range. But the logistics of that cartridge make sit a no go for general issue…..today/
For its intended purpose, this old Huey pilot would have preferred this short, piston 5.56 over the old 38 or the M9, but even then, I usually cheated and carried my tuned 45.
Roger that! my first battle experience with a 1911 Springfield was a broken sear and near broken wrist, so I more often than not carried my Browning hi-power. Unfortunately, as with many "govt" rounds especially PWC ammo didn't have enough powder to clear the ejector, nearly every round jammed against that Belguim spring. Many have had the same problems in any caliber in the "tan box".
hımmm..another original AKSU version..
SBR's are good solid weapons, but I am very glad that the SEALs are switching over to .308 FN SCAR
5.56 or 762 x 39 are fine in MOUNT operations give me a 762×59 or 3006 cal for long ranges in mountains or desert conditions. For close up pistol shooting nothin beats a 45 for knock down power and accuracy…..
I still love my Mosin Nagant. I can hit the broadside of a barn… two Counties over.
I'll just keep moving and nail you with my M16A5 while you're busy tracking your two-county-long shot, sniper….
Not bad for $100.
it doesn't look much shorter folder than an m4 with stock full collapsed
if the 5.56 was so good all the sandys would be gone!!!
Great rabbit hunting gun.
Good thing it kills people too…..
¡Vais a morir putos yankees!
Well, this is all very interesting, but it would have been nice if the camerman wasn't filimg in the shadows so we could see all this better..
**** u ********
I wish they had these when i was in the military !!!
Gee! The "New" Colt M4, except for barrel length, really looks a lot like a copy of my Daewoo (ar100) K-2.?. Folding stock – piston & rod, coupled (ak) gas operating system.
Minor differences is in that the Daewoo uses the FN FAL bolt and charging handle – H&K G3 – ghost-ring ridged front sight – gas port selector for single-shot-(marksman), or grenade launcher w/2 ports 1 for hot loads and 1 for weak loads – trigger guard drip for snow gloves & fires from (RH) closed stock.
Glad to see Colt catching up.