Tank Snipers!

by Jack Murphy on December 12, 2011 · 40 comments

Kit Up Tank Snipers

Kit Up Tank Snipers

With the US Army fielding an Urgent Needs Statement, a contract has already been signed for 126 additional Carl Gustaf weapons systems manufactured by Saab of Sweden.  The 84mm Recoiless Rifle replaced the obsolete, but functional, 90mm recoiless rifle in Ranger Battalion years ago where I started my Special Operations career.  My first duty position: Tank Sniper.

Admittedly, the M3 Carl Gustaf isn’t the sexiest of weapons among the 75th Ranger Regiment’s rather extensive arsenal.  This is especially true when you have to pack this giant metal tube into an AT4 jump pack with cardboard honeycomb and exit a C-17 during a Mass-Tactical airborne jump at night.  Getting hung up in a MH-60 with the Goose slung over your back while fast roping and dangling 50ft in the air ain’t sexy either.  Don’t ask me how I know that…

Otherwise, I think the Goose is way under-rated.  With the Australian military also making a large purchase of ammunition for these weapons, it seems that the Goose is finally coming into its own.

Kit Up Rocket Out

Kit Up-Carl Gustav

More and more reports are coming out telling us that the Taliban in Afghanistan has finally figured out the limited range of American rifles and other small arms.  Acting accordingly, we are told that they are maintaining as much stand off as possible when engaging US forces, remaining just outside the maximum effective range of our soldier’s ammunition while firing at them with heavy machine guns and RPGs.  The Carl Gustaf has the potential to change that when employed properly.  “Existing systems…such as the M141 Bunker Defeat Munition, M72 LAW, M136 AT-4 and the SMAW, are only effective inside of 500 meters. The Army says the Carl-Gustaf [max effective range 1,000m] is more effective than waiting on mortars and less expensive than artillery or Javelin missiles.”

Here is a bit from one of my Army buddies who used the Goose to do God’s work during the height of the Iraqi insurgency:

Kit Up Carl Gustav

“It was mostly on my last deployment, which was in the Samara providence and we were doing a call out.”  They would “have a terp tell everyone in the house to come out, and if they didn’t, then they were assumed to be hostile. So it would start with a long talk then a nine banger, then a frag to the side of the house, followed by more talking, then a few 203s on the side of  the house, then some more talking, then finally we said, okay we are going to kill everyone in the house in a few minutes.”  This is called escalation of force, if the terrorists don’t surrender themselves then we escalate the level of violence until they comply.  “So here comes the goose. First we started with an HEDP round into windows or through doors (the goose is an amazingly accurate weapon, I had no problem putting a round through a window at 600 meters) but later we decided we wanted to use TP rounds (which are basically just 84 mm rounds with cement inside) to knock the doors off, then hit up the house with thermobarics. On these occasions, which were several, the damage was large enough to not follow up on the house for any Bomb Damage Assessment or anything of the sort.  We would just leave and assume whatever little punks were in the house were all dead. I would say I’ve shot somewhere around 500 rounds out of the goose from TP, HE, HEDP, HEAT, smoke, flechette, thermobaric and all are extremely accurate and serve their purpose.  Flechette is by far the most interesting, as it shoots out little nails and is strictly anti-personnel but will jack your world up.”

Hey Uncle Sugar, while you’re at it, the M2 scope is great and all, but how about taking a look at the Aimpoint FCS12 Fire Control System to help take some of the guess work out of calculating for ballistics during a fire fight!  Check it out and get smart on the Goose and it’s ammunition!

Kit Up! contributor Jack Murphy is a former Ranger, Special Forces Soldier and is the author of the military thriller Reflexive Fire.

{ 40 comments… read them below or add one }

SFC YOUNG December 12, 2011 at 11:29 am

Peace through superior firepower
Speak softly and carry a big stick
The Good, The Bad I’m the guy with the gun

Throw in whatever other movie quote that you feel fits but you know your day just got awesome when you use a rocket launcher.

GO ARMY BEAT NAVY!!

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Tom December 12, 2011 at 2:30 pm

Not this year, can’t stay onsides.

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David K. December 12, 2011 at 11:48 am

Were I physically able, I’d go in to be a tank sniper. Heck, what better job is there than one that pays you to blow *** up?

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Nick December 12, 2011 at 11:50 am

Is it wrong that I get excited thinking about shooting Flechette rounds from a Gustaf?? Great description from your buddy….don’t worry about stacking up on the door, just blow the house up!

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dbones December 12, 2011 at 12:31 pm

my unit just got gustafs down range. from what i’ve heard they’ve already stopped a few enemy attacks before they even started. . . a little ****** that I got hurt and had to come home early, would love to see one of these in action

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Brandon December 12, 2011 at 1:23 pm

I’ve spend some time with Carl….Bada** system for sure. I think you’re only supposed to fire four rounds max before you risk chest cavity injury! Carl will get the party started/ended in a hurry that’s for sure.

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Jack Murphy December 12, 2011 at 1:32 pm

You have to refrence the Blast Over Pressure chart. I think it’s like only 2 flare rounds (have to be fired standing up to be effective) or like 6 HE/HEDP.

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Lew December 12, 2011 at 3:57 pm

In the Swedish army we say 6 full rounds/24h. Love the Carl Gustaf, we call it the “stovepipe” and while heavy it’s a decent piece of kit. ^^

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Pat Kilbane December 13, 2011 at 3:01 am

What does that over pressure feel like on your body? Is the primary concern your heart? brain? eardrums?

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rike December 13, 2011 at 5:21 am

You barely feel the pressure, it is nott bad at all. Keep your mouth open during fireing and you wount feel a thing. If you are having a cold then it will blow your nose for you.. :-)

Picture from 4 weeks ago during an exercise.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/rike_/HV/390774_**********7495902_598045901_8420327_1930185477_n.jpg

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Jack Murphy December 13, 2011 at 10:16 am

I take it that was a tongue in cheek comment rike? I assure you that you will definitely feel the over pressure.

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Tim December 12, 2011 at 1:58 pm

If I’m not mistaken, SAAB Bofors is working on an improved version (M4?), that should be able to fire programmable rounds the same way the XM25 does.
Plus with the development of guided rockets, I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few year we start seeing some guided AT rounds for the CG. Pretty neat for a weapon from the 50′s.
Here’s a link (in French, but the juicy content is in English) about Infantry AT weapons:
http://www.air-defense.net/forum/index.php?topic=15063.30
Worth scrolling through the whole topic. Ask if you need any translation.

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Anonymous-swede December 12, 2011 at 7:29 pm

The replacement for AT4 in Swedish army is the NLAW…
http://www.saabgroup.com/en/Land/Weapon-Systems/support-weapons/NLAW-Next-Generation-Light-Antitank-Weapon/

And yes, the CG will fire anything that has a 84mm round projectile.
Maybe in the future they shrink down a STRIX from 120mm to 84mm =)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY9S-PcKLYs

But there is some disadvantages when the tube is elevated more then 45degrees and you dont have a huge hole in the ground to “swallow” the exhaust atleast avoid wearing nylons under your uniform…. ;-)

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Swede December 12, 2011 at 2:35 pm

We used it alot in Afghanistan especially with airburst function in mountains like these>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdjEBmJ1w4Y&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL86DAD01E4ED915DC

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jrexilius December 12, 2011 at 3:05 pm

Seems like a good capability for a unit to have, combined with a DMR in at least 7.62 if not .300winmag. But she looks heavy to be humping on a patrol..

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Larry December 12, 2011 at 3:29 pm

Jack,

How many rounds, in addition to the launcher, does the gunner normally carry, and how many do you spread out across the rest of the team/squad?

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Jack Murphy December 12, 2011 at 4:13 pm

Back in the day we had assault packs specially made for the Goose rounds but we often just used regular assault packs and taped a small square of cardboard over the primer to protect it. Normally, each guy on the AT team would carry 2-3 rounds.

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Larry December 12, 2011 at 3:30 pm

BTW, coming for a light infantry and mech infantry background, this is a nice improvement from the old LAW and Dragon.

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Lance December 12, 2011 at 3:45 pm

What are you talking about. the old Carl Gustav is a awesome weapon. and can kick some serious but.

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ICE Man December 12, 2011 at 4:18 pm

Can we have a “Kit Up” Field Day where we can experience these types of weapons and others!?

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majrod December 12, 2011 at 4:37 pm

The Gustav is an excellent weapon and is in use with Rangers, CAG, SEALs & MARSOC. They also make a titanium one that shaves about 30% of the weight.

My question is why doesn’t the conventional side pick it up? The Army has nothing like it (except for a Javelin) and it outclasses the SMAW in every category.

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Jack Murphy December 12, 2011 at 4:40 pm

Major Rod, that’s what is happening now. Those 126 new systems are destined for mother Army.

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majrod December 12, 2011 at 6:40 pm

Ah, that wasn’t clear from the initial write up.

This article cleared it up a bit http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2011/11/30/u-s-army-orders-carl-gustaf-84mm-recoiless-rifles/

It states that 3/10 (not sure who that is, 3rd BCT, 10th Mountain?) and some 82nd troops will be fielding. Long time in coming. Even back in the 80′s us conventional infantry guys really liked to get an attached engineer squad who still had the 90mm RCLR.

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Dan December 13, 2011 at 5:53 pm

82D’s gettin their’s, believe it. Can’t wait to “play” with it.

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jake December 12, 2011 at 5:14 pm

Thermobarics God i would of loved to have had those, they would of been my bestest friends. Didn’t the insurgents complain about them in iraq?.

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avidus December 12, 2011 at 5:21 pm

As a former member of her Majesty’s Canadian Forces (CF) I would add that they’re great, almost indestructible and simple. That last one’s not to be overlooked. We’ve had them for decades and while you complain about carrying them no one complains about using them. Sure we would have liked something more high tech and guided when talking tank hunting (and a bigger warhead) but we had tactics to work with the Carl G. You mainly went for the mobility kill.

If you love the smorgasbord of rounds they can use, you’ll really love the RAP (Rocket Assisted Projectile) ones. They add a whole lot of range and velocity – just check that back blast!

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JD December 12, 2011 at 7:09 pm

2RAR in the Australian Army recently acquired the M3 version of this weapon:

http://digital.realviewtechnologies.com/default.aspx?xml=defencenews_army.xml&iid=33777

See page 3

There is more news about it in the more recent editions.

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Neal December 12, 2011 at 9:36 pm

Wait, adaptation to the current battlefield and a cheaper price tag… From Army higher-ups?
Color me surprised.
There’s some tech in a lab somewhere, gnawing an eraser, whispering to himself “No computer… Can’t be effective…”
Seriously, guys… Keep It Simple Stud.

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Nic Jenzen-Jones December 12, 2011 at 11:49 pm

The ADF certainly love their CGs. Got new BAE sights for them too.

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Lance December 13, 2011 at 2:15 am

As a intern for regular forces bring back Dragon antitank missiles since they have thousands in storage and for bunker busters in Afghanistan it’ll work better than a M-136 or LAW.

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majrod December 13, 2011 at 3:11 pm

Lance – The M47 Dragon S-U-C-K-E-D !!! It was very difficult to fire and hit anything. The tracking system was horrible! Our guys shouldn’t be handicapped with the stuff we were forced to use. RPGs were better.

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145426 December 13, 2011 at 4:37 pm

It’s way past my time so I rarely comment on tactical subjects, but we should have adopted the RPG-7D in 1972 at the latest. I like the Carl Gustav (M-2, not sure about the 3), but it’s quite heavy and in a war like Vietnam it would be left behind by infantry units. However, the RPG can go anywhere and has caused an awful lot of casualties to us.

At times I’m surprised by comments made about the Muj: “The Taliban in Afghanistan has finally figured out the limited range of American rifles and other small arms.”

The Red Army was defeated in head to head infantry engagements on a daily basis because of the limited range of their infantry weapons. The volume of fire would have made one think that Red Army soldiers had an advantage, but they were outgunned beyond 300 meters. Unless tactics have changed drastically from the 1980s, and I’ve not seen much evidence of that, they could move back 70 meters and pretty much enjoy the same long range advantage over US forces. Good piece, enjoyed it very much.

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majrod December 13, 2011 at 5:37 pm

I also chuckle when I read about “muj” have figured out to engage us from outside 500m. Then I remember stories that report 30, 50, 70 Taliban killed attacking some base in Afghanistan and of course the award citations of Guinta, Petry and Meyer…

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Jack Murphy December 13, 2011 at 6:22 pm

It was a different ball game when I was there. Long range engagements were hopelessly inaccurate mortar fire. Occasionally you might get a command detonated IED and that was about it.

Jim37F December 13, 2011 at 6:18 am

The ODA I’m attached to here in Afghanistan has a few Carl Gustav’s. One of the funnest weapons to shoot IMO

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milner December 13, 2011 at 10:25 am

Fire and movement with the 84mm recoilless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wodf_Rx9gko

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Infidel4LIFE December 13, 2011 at 1:03 pm

Good move and long time coming yes. The Swedes made one helluva weapon. Good move.

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Earlydawn December 13, 2011 at 3:54 pm

What’s more effective at actually destroying a structure, HE or HEDP?

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jake December 14, 2011 at 9:29 am

Remember the Dragon? what a hunk of shiz glad the jav took over.The military better start shifting to more full scale like many generals have suggested we are losing that edge a little.It’s good to see the Marines are getting back to their original missions and getting away from the land based warfare recommended by the top. We get a korea or some kind of knocked down dragged out WWIII style,we are going to need the basics all over again.Why do they always stick with fighting the last war?, haven’t they learned since Nam?. FFG tank busters are the way to go just pop up shoot and go. Robots lead the way!also. Sounds to future not really.

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Colin March 6, 2013 at 9:01 am

In Canada we started using these in 1979, we lacked the spread of ammo that they have now and they were a much heavier version, glad I was in the arty and not humping it on my back.

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