After a decade of war, the Army is going to issue infantrymen the cool-guy combat pants that special-ops troops have worn for years. I filed a story on Military.com this morning about the service’s plans to begin fielding a version of the Army Combat Pant to deploying units in April. Crye Precision LLC, Massif and Propper International are making 36,000 pairs of the pants in MultiCam. They will be issued through the Army’s Rapid Fielding Initiative to units headed for Afghanistan.
I sat down with officials from Product Manager Soldier Clothing and Individual Equipment on Feb. 8 to get the details of the way ahead. For now, the ACP will be made from Improved Defender M Ripstop, a popular fire-restistant fabric. Ground-pounders will get two pairs of the Army Combat Pant. Combat support soldiers will get one pair.
This is the Army’s latest attempt to address battle-wear issues soldiers experience in Afghanistan’s harsh landscape. Uniform officials have made improvements to the Army Combat Uniform’s trousers over the years. They’ve reinforced the seat, crotch and knee areas, but that wasn’t enough.
The Army also plans to hold a limited-user evaluation this summer to test out 1,000 pairs of the ACP in five different design variants featuring different versions of flame-resistant ripstop and twill fabrics. Soldiers will then pick a winner and a final design should be ready for fielding by October. The limited-production versions of the Army Combat Pant scheduled for fielding in April costs $150 to $200 each.
Comparatively, the standard ACU pants cost about $86 each. Once the design is finalized, uniform officials said they hope the new pants will end up costing $100 to $125 each. The idea is the ACP will last longer in extreme conditions so uniform officials won’t have to replace uniforms as often.
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Haha another uniform for us…awesome. Good thing I’m not deploying anytime soon, that I know of.
So, all 3 companies are making the ACP. How does that work?
There is one specific pattern that was agreed upon by PEO/Natick. All three companies have the specific pattern and are creating the pant from that pattern. ACUs are made by several different companies as are the majority of large issue items.
So, let me see if I’m copying this clearly. We’re talking about getting out of AFG sometime *next year*, and they’re going to only issue these fancy pants to units deploying to AFG after April of this year. Now, look, I understand that we need to always be improving equipment to meet real needs of warfighters, but this is coming just a little too late, isn’t it?
Hey, here’s an idea, how about the OEF pattern ACUs become standard garrison issue, OEF ACS/P become a standard combat issue, MCB is a year-round thing, and we can ******* the whole silly camo comp completely. Boom. Money, time, and sanity PRESERVED.
We’ve stopped fighting conventional wars almost entirely, and I don’t see a big dust-up happening between us and China any time soon. Iran or Syria, MAYBE, but I bet they’ve been looking at Iraq and AFG reeeeeeeal close, and the second we start sending boots, they’re going to adopt the exact same tactics.
Screw it. Where’s my woodies?
Huh?
The OEF folks who THE MEDIA and THE POTUS have been saying *may* be done with OEF *next year* will be happy to have this clothing, which is a well-tested, long-proven design. The stumbling block to now has been durability, which was revealed VIA TESTING and proven to have been resolved VIA TESTING. The likelihood that both pair will last a grunt in that AO his whole rotation is like 70/30 in favor. Same with the combat shirts and the rest of their kit. So adopting a new pattern isn’t significantly more expensive than being at war.
Just because our military *may* fold the flag in Afghanistan next year doesn’t mean it goes in a box with a glass front and a hammer. Hopefully. We’ve made that mistake enough times in the past, and hopefully won’t penalize our proven vets by chasing them out, and disincentivizing continuing service for up-and-comers. Continuing to evolve personal equipment is one way to do this.
Oh, and one of the AOs you neglected to mention in your rundown is North(ern) Korea, which could conceivably be a humanitarian mission leveraged with military force. So it could be COIN with big formations behind it. Neato, more doctrine for the the CALL and CGSC kiddies to think on. Or we can just let the Chinese handle it, and grant them unrestricted access to a huge pool of labor whose quality of life they can improve dramatically even as they pay them HALF what they pay their own (increasingly restive) workers. Strategic implications for other nations’ work forces there? Nah.
But I digress. Horray for fancy pants.
All of these are valid points, and I’ve never regarded the military as “in case of war, break glass”. My concern is that the valid, useful gear they need, is only at this time being authorized for those deploying to one particular AO, after a set time. If you’re going to AFG some time after April (October, even?), you get the fancy pants in the OEF pattern, but they’re only authorized for wear in that AO. The second you get back, from my understanding, you’re not authorized to wear them any more.
Hilarious! Very happy for the conventional guys though giving support troops is a waste unless they are assigned to a combat arms units and then they should get the same amount as the combat arms guys. Can’t wait to see the Crye Combat Trou shot of the finance clerk.
Now the Spec Ops guys are going to have to find something “cooler” so as not to look like the conventional guys.
Sleepy Dave – those folks will be deploying for 9 – 12 mo (3 – 9 months L O N G E R) than their special ops brethren.
Fair point. They will be out there a while. But it just seems like we’re finally getting people the gear they need, as we’re trying to reel this thing in.
Im guessing blue jeans. The regular ground pounder doesn’t bring jeans to combat. That makes it the perfect alternative for the cool guys.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but SEALs in VN wore T/S jackets and blue jeans.
…which will be full circle. 1SFOD wore jeans too.
The support person who is getting one pair of these pants is the one who leaves the wire once/twice a week to do log support or even admin mentoring–or manning an ECP. S/he need kneepads to do proper vehicle inspections; I suspect that these pants address that (on balance saving money)
Beyond that, units correct down to the section level. Good loggies were getting up on their hind legs and telling HQ staffs that plate carriers weren’t gonna happen when they hit theater, and that 42A who alternates between fancy pants and PTs for lunch (people figure out who those folks are pretty quick) is gonna catch **** at the chow hall if he doesn’t unscrew himself.
Remember the maternity BDU’s?
Like the multicam and built in knee pads. However they are way way too expensive for a GI salary. Time for those Jerks who sell stuff to lower prices for men in uniform.
Still prefer my old woodland BDUs and there cheaper!
Agreed! My lightweight woodies lasted forever and were breathable and would work fine in Afghanland.
But the problem is that they aren’t flame resistant and I’m sorry but the cotton ripstop BDUs aren’t all that sturdy, I know I’ve torn up a pair or two just in bootcamp in Pendleton which is a far less rugged environment than Afghanistan.
I made that point in another thread: that you can’t just keep swapping uniforms and expect the guys making $1200 a month while supporting the wife and kid to pony up that cash, but everyone here went ******* and told me I didn’t know what I was talking about.
Well, I know *** Im talking about: I had those troops under me and I know the cost. You can’t just fking change uniforms when the wind blows. You’re KILLING the E-5 and below guys.
Especially, when the FRACU OCP/Multicam tops and bottoms cost $160 EACH and you don’t allow them to wear the cheaper non-FRACU uniforms.
the lightweight comfy 100% cotton lightweight woodies lasted about 2 months in the field. So lets not get all misty about the way it was. The less comfy nyco blend lasted about 6 months. I stockpiled the all-cottons when the Army Times reported the nyco change.
And yes, this gear is issued. And yes, CIF and RFI give you only what you need. You can be johnny-on-the-spot with your laundry if you’re expected to be clean, stink a bit if you’re not or throw some of that (tax-free) cheddar down for an extra set via That Auction Site.
The Soldier won’t be paying for these out of pocket; the tax-payer will. The ACPs just like the OCP uniforms and ACSs are issued through RFI at zero cost to the Soldier. While I agree that BDUs were way cheaper, I was buying at least one set a year for replacement purposes. Since the ACUs have come out I’ve only purchased two sets but have received 15 sets through either RFI or ADO while down-range and I never purchased an ACS (as a side note the only boots I’ve purchased out of the 10 suede types I’ve had since the switch were one pair of Oakley Assaulters back in ’07).
Way to throw tons of money at a nonexistent need. I’m sure, if they tried for half a minute, they could find something more needing funding, and actually needed, to spend this programs money on.
The DCU uniform was constructed of 50/50 nylon/cotton. The ACU uses the same material. I never understood why my DCUs/CCUs were practically indestructible while my ACUs wouldn’t last longer than a month in the field. I’ve always been impressed by Crye Precision’s combat pants, which were surprisingly comfortable and durable in Afghanistan. The integrated knee pads are miles better than the conventional ones.
$86 a pair for ACU’s??? I buy them for $3.99 at the local Goodwill. They are usually new or lightly used. The gov’t overpays for every damn thing. I’m sure they have some $800 rolls of toilet paper hiding out somewhere.
You get the nearly new ones at Goodwill because that’s where they wind up when the guys who were issued them for wear in a FOB return home.
I’m not a fan of the built in knee pads.
I think this is a waste, but I guess we’ll see when they roll out and if they last longer. ACU’s are definitely garbage. I had *no* issue deploying in DCUs or doing training in BDUs. The ACUs are complete garbage. Don’t breathe and tear easily.
We’ll see how these are made.
The final costs of these pants are going to be $125? DCU works just fine in desert and BDU works just fine in Woodland. The conventional wars are over. It’s amazing how much money we are spending on uniforms. A different uniform type for every branch.
But BDUs and DCUs aren’t flame resistant because back when were being issued those IEDs weren’t a concern. Going forward I’d say that IEDs are here to stay in any unconventional war that we might fight in the future so I think that combat uniforms made from FR materials are a must.
I’ve lost faith in this new kit, not because it’s necessarily bad kit, but because we’re not allowed to f’ing use it. I’ve got all of this crap now on my clothing record and for what? Our BDE CSM has micromanaged so far down on what our uniforms will look like that we are literally exactly the same, shooter’s preference and common sense are gone. I feel bad for the guys who didn’t get a plate carrier, because while their buddies are running light they’re forcing all of the guys with IOTVs to wear every piece of kevlar that you can attach to it. How does that make sense? This isn’t Call of Duty MFer, we don’t become Juggernauts with all that crap on.
Your BDE CSM dictates all of that because he’s not the one who has to wear all that kevlar while running around up and down the hills and mountains trying to chase down Taliban in high heat. He’s also not the one who’s going to be engaging in firefights with the Taliban when you’ve caught up to them so what it does it matter to him that wear he dictates that everything goes doesn’t work for everybody? Sounds to me like you BDE CSM has forgotten his roots and needs to go outside the wire on a few ops in order to see what it’s really like out there and maybe then he’ll realize the errors of his ways.
What ever happened to Black, OD & Khaki?
You can find OD & khaki in Multicam.
Is the Crye precision combat kit that was so unobtanium before now in the backseat???
Yay… now I can finally afford a set…and find it in stock!!!
Just in time for the Dumbasses who run PEO Soldier to use the magic eight ball and pick another cammo disaster!
***. This is way over engineered.
I am glad that army is finally putting these out there for the us to use. Even though my deployment to Afghanistan is coming to an end the month these things come out. I bought a pair myself for this deployment. The combat pants last longer than two pairs of the multicam pants I was issued. And yes I am a support troop, while over here I was on the road 4-7 days a week getting shot at and avoiding IEDs and made good use of the pants. I agree the guy in finance doesn’t need these, but they are great for anyone traveling outside the wire.